Recording: powerd mixer into computer

[Lozza]

hey, I am pretty clue less with recording and I need some tips. I am interested in live sound and I own a Behringer pmh 5000 powered mixer for live sound. Does anyone know what would be the best method of recording into a pc. Currently I have tried line outs, control lines and mono lines into my pc but as my mixer has amps built in, I get a horrible buzzing on the recordings.

 

Im stuck - if anyone knows the mixer, please suggest somthin

 

cheers - Laurence

[SeanT]

What cables are you using? I have a little cable that is two unbalanced 1/4 jacks to a single 3.5mm stereo jack that works very nicely with anything with stereo jack out. If it still hums then try an external sound card.

[Simon MFR]

You didnt mention whether you wanted to multi-track the recording, or just a vague stereo mix to play with later on....if its the latter, use a jack lead from the headphone socket on the console into your computer....the socket wont be amplified therefore removing the power-hum you mention. However, this wont be a very accurate rendering of the event, and if you PFL or adjust any channel through the performance it will be recorded onto 'tape'.

 

The *direct* line outs shouldnt be amplified either, if youre getting buzz from them I think something may not be earthed correctly. How may line in's on the recorder do you have and what is it?

[Bobbsy]

Assuming you just want the main stereo mix out, likely your easiest way would be to use the two Phono "Tape Out" jacks at the back right of your board. They're designed exactly for this purpose. Leads with 2 phono at one end and a stereo eighth-inch jack at the other are available almost anywhere.

 

The fact that your mixer has built in amps shouldn't cause buzz on dedicated line outputs, though the one caution I'd make is to route the unbalanced phono line outs as far away from the mains and speaker cables as possible just in case.

 

What PC and sound card are you trying to record with? Quite a few laptops have very much substandard built in audio cards which are noisy in themselves before you even connect a source. Alas, the solution to this is monetary...buy an outboard USB2 or Firewire sound interface.

 

Bob

[p.k.roberts]

line outs, control lines and mono lines into my pc but as my mixer has amps built in, I get a horrible buzzing on the recordings.

 

I'd agree with almost all of the above except DON'T use the headphone output of your mixer - as 'Bobbsy' says, there are phono recording outputs on the mixer which are designed to do the job. You also might want to check that the input on your computer is actually a 'line' input other than a 'mic' input. If you are using a lap top, then just as a test, try running it off battery rather than mains. Switch mode class two lap top power supplies are not known for being 'sound friendly'. Another thing you might be able to try is to electrically isolate the mixer from the computer by using an audio interface with a transformer in it - something like a DI box or splitter - and see if this solves your problem.

[Lozza]

thanks everyone - il bear all in mind and have a fiddle. Interesting about the sound card...

 

Loz

[MarkPAman]

However there is a problem with two track recording of live events.

 

Even if you have everything going through your desk, the levels that you are sending to the PA system are not going to be balanced right for recording. (Possibly with the exception of very very large shows.) What I mean is, that you will be sending lots of the vocals & other quiet stuff to the PA, but relatively little of the guitars, drums & loud stuff.

 

I've done recordings this way, only to have (for example) the guitarist almost sack me for not getting him high enough in the mix. He was actually so loud that I struggled to get the vocals through!

 

So, other options are: Use an aux (or two) to get a mix you can balance separately from the main PA mix, (probably not an option with a small powered mixer) or use a mic & record what it actually sounded like.

 

In fact, I've often combined the two, giving two mono signals which can be combined, to get the best mix, in the computer (with Audition in my case) after the gig.

 

Oh, and Simon, don't use the haedphone socket for recording, you will find you need it for, err, um, your headphones

[Bobbsy]

OT expansion of thread:

 

Requests for recordings of live mixes are always something approach with fear and trepidation.

 

At the simplest, you can just record a feed of the main outs, but invariably the results are disappointing and sound nothing like what the audience in the venue heard. This makes sense...the live sound contains lots of extra elements (direct sound from acoustic instruments or from the backline amps, plus lots of room effects. A mix that sounds perfect in the room is usually completely out of balance when heard on a later recording.

 

As has been suggested, this can be improved if you can spare a couple of auxes and create a mix specifically for the recording. You can improve it still more by either splitting the stage feed or using direct outs to record EVERYTHING raw and mix it later. This, of course, assumes you miked every single stage source!

 

The trouble with all this is that, to do it properly, you're required to put a lot of concentration and effort into the recording...and this is almost always at the expense of the FOH mix you're actually supposted to be doing! The only real way around it is to completely separate the live mix and recording jobs. Alas, unless you're working on a big name act, this is rarely possible.

 

Nope, I don't have any magic solutions...and this is something we all have to deal with from time to time. I just thought it was worth putting up for discussion.

 

Oh, and a couple of my favourite live recordings have been made by putting a stereo pair of good mics near the mix position and just recording the sound in the hall. At least that way I recorded what the audience heard!

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

Requests for recordings of live mixes are always something approach with fear and trepidation.

Couldn't agree more.

 

The trouble with all this is that, to do it properly, you're required to put a lot of concentration and effort into the recording...and this is almost always at the expense of the FOH mix you're actually supposed to be doing! The only real way around it is to completely separate the live mix and recording jobs. Alas, unless you're working on a big name act, this is rarely possible.

Exactly.

 

Nope, I don't have any magic solutions...and this is something we all have to deal with from time to time. I just thought it was worth putting up for discussion.

 

Oh, and a couple of my favourite live recordings have been made by putting a stereo pair of good mics near the mix position and just recording the sound in the hall. At least that way I recorded what the audience heard!

I have to record a lot of the gigs I work. If anybody dose have any "magic solutions", please share.

 

I usually use this microphone for two track recordings. Battery lasts for years (well months anyway).I find that I can't hear any difference to mics costing many times as much.

[p.k.roberts]

I always think that half-decent mono is better than terrible stereo, so if only two tracks of recording are available I have tried recording a mono out of the mixer on one track and a mic at the mix position onto the other track. Then afterwards, drop them into your editing programme of choice, time align them, and 'mix to taste'. Depending on the editing/mixing programme you are using, you might even be able to fake a bit of stereo ambience.

 

It still sounds terrible, but not quite as terrible as it might have done :-)

[ojc123]

If all you want is an idea of what it sounded like then try the output from a domestic camcorder. The compression is very harsh but it is idiot proof. Set it up and leave it running. I use this for most of our acts because I don't need to worry about it once I set it up. It seems to cope with loud rock bands and acoustic sets equally well. Not brilliantly but listenable. Some of the more recent camcorder are surprisingly good.

[MarkPAman]

If all you want is an idea of what it sounded like then try the output from a domestic camcorder. ...................................... Some of the more recent camcorder are surprisingly good.

 

Yep; I'll second that, as long as the gig is loud enough to get over the motor noise of the camera.

I have one at work with a mic input, but all the newer models seem to leave this feature out (very bad - the one I got for home I can't plug a mic into; had assumed it was standard, specified all the other bits OK but didn't find out this bit was missing for ages; RTFM! )

Mic inputs are available on pro gear, fortunately I am able to borrow some almost any time I want! :)

 

Video gear with built in mics is generally not good

[StevieR]

Short of a completely separate recording mixer/system, the best way I have found is to use the Direct Outputs and doa multi-track recording. Now, for this you are going to require a hard disk recorder or sound-card with multiple input capability. The benefit is that you can record everything without having to worry about the 'mix' and then spend time back at base mixing it all together. In these situations, it is also worth adding a couple of 'audience' mics to the left and right of the stage to capture the crowd to enhance the 'live' sound.

 

Steve

[Sound Man]

I have also got one of these Behringer powered mixer desks which I use for church services. I use the tape output to record the sermons to a cassette recorder. I would also say the problem is an earth loop between your mixer and computer. There are a number of solutions you could try.

 

Try disconnecting the signal earth in your lead between the mixer & computer.

 

If that doesn’t sort it out, insert a small value resistor i.e. 100 ohm in the signal earth in your lead between the mixer & computer.

 

If that doesn’t sort it out, the only method left is to isolate the earths using a couple of isolating transformers which has already been said. I have used a two channel device called a "Ground Loop Isolator" successfully before. It has two phono plugs on the input and two phono sockets on the output. I think was intended for car audio systems.

 

 

Never Try Disconnecting the Mains Earth – That Would Be Very Dangerous!

[p.k.roberts]

Try disconnecting the signal earth in your lead between the mixer & computer.

 

Although this can help in some circumstances (as can the the 'resistor in the signal earth trick') I don't think that's likely to work in this instance as there is unlikely to be an earth reference at the computer end.