Kicked out of college

[Michael_hunt]

Hi guys

 

I was, studying at ****** college, well at least thats what they say.

 

I had been taking time off college to work at my local venue, where I'm still learning on the job, and my tutors didn't like this. (I worked there more than going to college because I was learning, I get on really well with my colleagues and able to network with the crews that come with shows.)

 

There have been problems from day one with my course, but I wont go into that.

 

So yesterday, I had a meeting with the head of production, who told me that he was suspending me and that I wouldn't have a place in the second year.

I'm not bothered about the being kicked off, but Ive got a few questions for you wise people.

 

 

1: What shall I do. Myself and a fellow student graded other students on there ability, and these grades count?

 

2: The whole group went threw a phase of just grading each other, and our tutor would take the average. (so nobody got less than a merit) What can be done about this?

 

3: Should I look for another venue to work at, and gain experience working somewhere other than my local venue. To see how differently venues work?

 

4: Is there any chance of getting into a good uni without a Btec ?

 

 

If anyone is reading this and has applied for the Btec ran by ****** college, then I would think long and hard about whether or not you want it. I'm not the only person on these forums who's had bad experiences of ****** college. The head of performing arts said to me "I don't care how you feel about the course, it teaches what it needs to". Because Ive worked in theatres, I went into the course have a basic level off understanding. I have come out knowing more than I went in with, but only because I took up a job in another venue.

 

I think the course is fine if you have know idea what a length of TRS is or a multicore. If you do, then you may find it incredibly frustrating.

 

Well, thats my rant for the month (Sorry if I seem a little bitter)

 

I appreciate your help.

 

Regards

 

Mic

 

 

[The above post has been edited to remove name of the college]

[OB2]

unfortunatly the back door into theatre has been rapidly disserpearing over the last decade, and a lot of place now need you to have some sort of formal qualification, but im sure there are a few places you may be able to get but its getting more and more diffucult, in my experience of eductaion (this is more for the btec than BOVTS) there is a lot of grinning and bearing, in order to get the qualification......

 

I hope not, but you may now find it hard to get jobs, however you coudl find another college who will take you on, to do the second year - find out from you tutor how what credits you already have and find another college with a course more suited to you.....?

[Jivemaster]

Practical skills will set you apart from, and above, other people with the same academic qualifications, getting the first five years experience without the paper quals is HARD.

 

Take this as a warning shot! You MUST get the paper quals to smooth the entry into employment. Look to make the best of your last year, and find a college to take you on to completion. Put the Hours in NOW to make the rest of your life easier. College is easy, its what extra that you put in that makes the good grades and the good references, however ONLY if you pass the course.

 

If you really want to do real theatre work as well as college get a course that will accept this, You have to do the full course, doing the bits you miss by distance learning, that way, IF YOU PASS the course you have ALSO a year of experience. If you fail you have nothing and no money.

 

Remember also that your college should be teaching you the curent state of the art of your discipline. Your side job may be less up to date with rules and practices and technology.

[Just Some Bloke]

So yesterday, I had a meeting with the head of production, who told me that he was suspending me and that I wouldn't have a place in the second year.

Speaking as someone who has taught in colleges in the past I know how bad things need to have got before a student gets kicked off a course. If you go they get less money so it really is a last resort for them. How often did you attend classes?

1: Myself and a fellow student graded other students on their ability, and these grades count?

I don't understand this. Surely only lecturers are allowed to grade students?

 

2: The whole group went through a phase of just grading each other, and our tutor would take the average (so nobody got less than a merit). What can be done about this?

Again, I don't understand. Does the qualification provider (e.g. BTEC) know that students are effectively deciding their own grades?

3: Should I look for another venue to work at, and gain experience working somewhere other than my local venue. To see how differently venues work?

Yes, regardless of any other studying you chose to do.

4: Is there any chance of getting into a good uni without a Btec ?

If you prefer practical learning to theory why on earth do you think you might want to go to university? A university qualification endorses the learning of the theory much more than the ability to, for instance, work backstage in a theatre. Wouldn't you be better aiming to go to a drama college on their Stage Management or Technical Theatre course?

 

Just my thoughts.

[Simon Lewis]

Michael,

 

I work in Higher, not Further education, so some things may be different. However, all the HEIs I know of (and I suspect FEIs) work hard to retain students. You are our income, and you represent our product, our measure of success.

 

It seems unlikely that any college would seek to fail and terminate you without just cause, and having gone through some formal warnings first.

 

In 'suspending you' are you being given the opportunity to make good work that you may have missed in the present year? I would have thought it difficult to transfer to another institution if you do not have the relevant end of year credit?

 

With regards to what seems to be peer assessment, is this grade the only grade that is carried through for that assignment? It isn't unusual to ask students for comments on the contribution of others in group.

Any assessment scheme should clearly state how marks will be awarded, and I would hope that there is a robust system of both internal and external moderation in place.

 

With regards to the old debate of training, education and apprenticeships (which is effectively what you are doing) I wouldn't want to suggest anything that you are not practically and academically suited to. I would point out though that a BTEC is seen by many as a minimum standard of learning, so completing your eduction may be of considerable benefit in the long term.

 

You mention University. I suspect that any problems you feel exist now will be much worst there. The emphasis is on teaching and learning within the context of undergraduate education, not a practical training ground. Furthermore, should you get into university and not attend lectures, they will eventually throw you out there too!

 

 

I would sit down with an independent academic counsellor and sort out what you want to do and what you need to get there. Tempting though it is to criticise your old college, I do not think that they have acted unreasonably.

 

I'm sure that Paulears can shed some light upon the assessment situation you mention.

 

Just my 2 pence...

 

Simon

[the kid]

As a ex student from another course.

Just reading through from how you have put it you are not kicked off you have not been taken to 2nd year, take 1st year again. Some one from our college had to re-take 1st year because there marks were not up to scratch or something.

 

The other thing I can not see is why you have been "chucked off" as much as you might of taken time off could it be that after having the marks externally verified they were not enough?

 

The only other thing is what is the colelge policy on suspension ours and another local one you have to have warnings first.

[steveo]

Just to add my tuppence.

 

I was lucky at my college, I did the same as you and worked through my college years along with a few of my fellow students but we were able to get our chief technician to sign our assesment sheets so were able to pass. I still struggled with my attendance as I was only physically in college for about half of the time I was supposed to be.

 

I still managed to pass with Merit but have now for the first time discovered 12 years after leaving college and 16 years in the business that I am not qualified to apply for a post that requires a minimum of a degree prefrable a masters in Theatre Production.

 

My advise is to stick with your learning and still work when you can without interfereing with your studies. I still maintain that some of the best learning you can get is on the job, but without a bit of paper that says you can do it people won't even look at you.

 

Hope this Helps

[Ynot]

OK.

I'm going to be a little blunt and speak plainly on this one. Apologies if that strikes any nerves.

 

You presumably chose to take the course at the college because you WANTED to study theatre. If, whilst there, you have taken so much time off said course, then it surprises me not that you've been denied the opportunity to continue. And that's regardless of your reasons for absence being theatre related. Your tutors have a job to do - and that is to educate you. Not to provide a stop-in shop for you to attend or not at your whim.

 

If you felt that at any stage your course wasn't delivering what you needed, or that the subject matter was beneath your needs, then you should have either voluntarily opted out of the remaining time, or more appropriately looked to see if there was an alternative available at a higher level. Or even switched colleges.

 

What you might learn at a working theatre can and will be very useful, BUT in these days of increased competition for jobs, many employers are insisting more and more on formal documented proof that you have the capabilities - and that means college/uni certification. Your CV/resume/portfolio is the place to show what extra-curricular work you've done, the places you've worked and the on-site experience you've built up with what kit etc.

 

And, as we never seem to tire of saying here in the Blue Room, it's FAR better to learn to write using correct grammar and spelling, as many potential employers will conceivably discard anything that's written poorly!

This goes for university as well - possibly even more so. And bear in mind that university courses are going to be FAR more study based, and more intensive and less likely to be too heavy with the practical side of theatre.

 

Simply put, you need to tailor your personal approach to what the industry wants to see. And that isn't taking the opportunity to disrespect a centre of learning in public forum. Personally, I would be extremely bothered about being 'chucked off' a course for whatever reasons. I suggest you might want to think with care on your next move.

 

TD

[Jivemaster]

These days employers need to check the experience and training of their staff to see that the tasks can be done safely. No certs no job.

 

Uni will be a paper based learning system, essays, dissertations, projects, etc, all to be submitted in time and fully presented in excellent prose. There will also be the small matter of the fees and living expenses that you will have to pay, leaving you seriously in debt when you leave, just when you will need to find a property to live in with negative savings

Get the BTEC resit the first year with full attendance, pass it WELL, complete the course, then look for the next years.

 

Remember the better courses stay that way by demanding that the students work hard and keep getting good results. They have to edit OUT the slackers.

 

Your college wants and needs you you are its income and its product, however if you are going to bring them into disrepute they will dump you rapidly. then No other establishment will want you and you could end up flipping Macburgers for a career :blink:

 

If you take this as a serious warning shot you can go back and get the year and then the course. Decide when to get a full time job and after that go for an OU course and do a module most years then the degree and higher remain within reach. Advance yourself by one professional development course each year.

 

Dont make disparaging comments on here your head/senior tutor/tech may well be here too, watching and listening to you.

 

I remember going from London to Edinburgh for an interview on a saturday so that I didnt skive a day off my job, When I got back on the monday my boss asked me about the trip to edinburgh :( He and my interviewer had been at college together years before, and had "spoken". I'm still in London.

[paulears]

Simon mentioned I may be able to throw a bit of light on the assessment process. I'm trying very hard to not be on your, or their side - balancing on the fence is tricky.

 

As for the peer group assessment. In itself, this isn't a problem as long as the published criteria for the particular unit allow it. What concerns me is mention of averaging - this doesn't feature in any way in BTEC specs. I suspect what you mean that your teacher means (if you see what I mean) is assessment of group activities. Some of the criteria are for work in groups - it fits performing arts well. It is quite possible that your grade could impact on somebody elses if what you did was something that prevented the others getting access to higher grades. This is well understood, and usually the teacher arranges an alternative activity that lets those who should get higher grades get them. As an example, imagine a production where the sound or lighting is really poor - this could be a generic 'poorness' due to a lack of skill or attitude towards hard work. So we could have bad lighting, dreadful sound, awful costumes. The poor actor left this mess would have trouble "communicating intent to the audience" - so would possibly not be able to get the distinction s/he deserved, through no fault of their own. If you were the one who didn't turn up, or couldn't be bothered, you would be responsible. Most colleges who are used to this would then have to find alternative ways to ensure these people were not compromised. If your record is poor, then they have a problem - throw you out, and get rid of a problem or let you stay, but not have any responsibility any more - effectively, untrusted.

 

Funding isn't the problem - they get some money at the start, a big chunk once you've been there a while, then a smaller amount at the end when/if you complete. This is the only funding they'd lose. The big snag is retention figures - league table type stuff. How many start, how many still there at the census point, and then how many stay.

 

Catch 22 really - you can have high retention, but by keeping the poorer people, rather than chucking them out, the overall grades suffer. The opposite is low retention, letting people go if they are a little shaky, but a good overall performance those that are left all do well. My experience says that the college management always want both, but can only have one as they seem mutually exclusive.

 

I bumped into one of my old students over the weekend. Great girl, always worked really hard for me, and was a truly useful person - reliable, hardworking, talented. I left when she was heading towards the end of her course. I was ready to cut her plenty of slack as she'd been offered professional work, but would have to leave before the end of term. I'd planned to give her individual work, damn awkward, but I felt it was worth it because the point of college is to prepare you for work or continued education - and a real job isn't to be sniffed at nowadays.

 

After I left, she told me that she was presented with two choices. leave, and not complete, or stay and lose the job. She took the job. The college thought that education was sufficiently important to overide the job offer. Perhaps like you, they just issued an ultimatum.

 

 

One important thing. Employers will notice the gap in your CV. What are you going to tell them - you wasted 2 years for nothing? You might find a uni willing to take you, but I'm certain that if they find out the real situation, then they'll treat you like a plague carrier. Uni very often involves very little pratical work. They are interested in your ability to do what they want - much may be theory or other brain bending work. Is this you?

 

To me, you sound like you've had enough of education, at least for a while. Feel free to pm me if you want specifics.

 

 

Last point. BTEC registrations last 5 years - so you could always go back and do it again, if they will let you? (although depending on circumstances, you may have to pay)

[Michael_hunt]

Hi

 

Just got in from work, and thought I would add a point.

 

People are talking about the grades.

 

As yet, I've had 5 distinctions, 4 merits and just one pass. no fails.

 

The pass was for group work.

 

My grades are fine, its just the fact I've missed some days.

 

As it stands I had 2 warnings. One was just a letter, the second an interview, and one day after this, I was told I had been suspended.

 

From what I've heard, students are asking why I'm no longer there, and rumors are flying around. (some are almost correct) which makes me think that either the head, or another memember of staff has been discussing the matter with students.

 

One other point to make.

 

My course is run by one college, and taught at another. The college which I officially attend, hasn't suspended me, its the college I am taught at. Which makes me wonder if my proper college know and agreed that I should be suspended, as it appeared to be a spare of the moment decision, made in frustration.

[Simon Lewis]

Michael,

 

Is your college offering any means of resolving this? Can you go back and complete referral work or repeat any incomplete modules?

 

Simon

[Ynot]

My grades are fine, its just the fact I've missed some days.

Which confuses me a little - just how MANY days have you missed??

As it stands I had 2 warnings. One was just a letter, the second an interview, and one day after this, I was told I had been suspended.

This route is quite normal - even in business. I'd have thought the written warning would have also been preceded by at least two verbals as well.

 

At the end of the day, if you HAVE missed the required number of attendance days, then the college is well within it's rights to dismiss you from the course.

What YOU now have to decide is whether you want to return to complete what you've begun, or risk entering the world of the employed without a paper qualification.....

[David]

If you came to me for a job and said that you had had missed the required number of attendance days at collage, how do I know that as an employer, that you are going to turn up for work every day, the only record you have says you wont, do I give you the job, I don't think so

[Tomo]

Just to re-emphasise the 'Proper Spelling and Grammar' issue:

 

I've just been helping my former employer to screen the applications for my old job, and between the two of us we came to a conclusion that might help you in the future:

 

Any application with spelling and grammar mistakes gets filed in the big yellow box outside the warehouse.

 

The reasoning behind this is simple - if you don't spend the time to get your first point of contact between you and your potential employer right, how do we know that you'll spend the time to do the job properly?

 

On another note:

Employers are not the only ones who worry about gaps in employment - I had trouble renting my first choice of accomodation because the landlord didn't like my two weeks on unemployment benefit before my last job.