tivoliproduction Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 my theatre has finally agreed to replace existing wooden timbers in the grid above the stage with steel, I have a structural engineer on board to assist with the various calcs etc to make sure everyhting is the right size and all good, the plan would be to put the steel beams as high as possible in the grid basically under the actual roof of the stage. the stage isnt the biggest in the world and I seem to be forever running out of storage space, so my thoughts were in an ideal world I would have walkways put in above the grid for riggers to put points in etc, but I dont have much in the way of trim height, this would solve I problem with the access and would cause another problem with trim height, any suggestions?? cheers in advance. russ. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locksmith Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 If you are short of space and need access, I'd choose the scissor lift option. It has a relatively small footprint and gives you good access. The main drawback of this is you can only go up or down and get limited reach. A boom (cherry picker) will give better access possibilities, but storage will be a problem.How often will you be using it? Is hiring a cheaper option? If so, you can choose the appropriate kit each time. cheers Dave J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What kind of shows are you running; i.e. how often do you need spot points; if you put in enough permanent grid lines can you get away without?For quick access to the grid from below (which is what I assume your question is...?), what about a Genie AWP, as they are nice and compact to store and will go up to 14m. A tallescope may well not get you up to grid height (what is the height - or the budget for that matter?). For a scissor lift, you need to check the max loading of your stage; in fact if you can take a heavy point load then what about a self-propelled Genie lift, useful for focussing too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoliproduction Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 thought I would revive an old thread because I need to get something sorted out for a board of trustees meeting this friday. at the moment I am looking at a "nifty 90m" trailer boom, it seems at the moment that all the other options I have looked at are either too heavy for my stage or too expensive, my stage can take alot of weight in certain areas but not huge amounts in areas such as over the orchestra pit... total working height is 10m. the boom will be used on a regular basis and it is not justifiable to hire one each time it is needed as local hire company dont do short notice... any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Evans Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Personally I think a grid you can walk around in is more flexible even if it means you incur a lack of trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoliproduction Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 the grid would be great but the cost I'm sure would be crazy for what I'm trying to achieve, I have been speaking to one of my riggers who has done quite a bit of work in large concert halls and venues all over the country and am currently going on his advice, my main concern is the health and safety of my crew, the only access to the "grid" at the moment is through the main roof over the auditorium and it is not a nice place to be at the best of times. think I will have to go for the boom option for now and when (if) we get the fly tower added then things will be addressed more to both options. think this makes sense!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Can you be more specific? What do you want to use it for? Rigging? Focussing? Maintenance? What height are you going to work at? Is your stage raked? What is access/storage like? total working height is 10m. However, don't forget that at max height you have very little movement - both booms are almost vertical and the slew will pretty much just spin you on the spot. Maximum platform height is just 7.5m. The manufacturers claim that gives a max working height of 9.5m, which is fair enough for changing a lightbulb or cleaning a window - for focussing a profile its a bit optimistic, for rigging a moving head its very optimistic.That means if you're planning to focus an lx bar at 9m you should expect to have to move the machine a *lot*. If you're planning to focus a bar at 10m you'd better hire your cassies from a basketball team somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoliproduction Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 sorry about not being very specific, typing and being on phone at same time doesnt work... the plan is to use it for rigging mostly with the occasional bit of maintenance, just basically putting points in for one nighters vith truss and motors etc. access and storage via a 40' scene dock through a 16' high roller shutter. hopefully this explains a bit more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 the plan is to use it for rigging mostly with the occasional bit of maintenance, just basically putting points in for one nighters vith truss and motors etc. How high? You mentioned that "the total working height is 10m" a couple of posts back. You are aware that the Nifty 90 will only reach a platform height of 7.5m right? How do you put your points in at the moment? Have you had an opportunity to hire one and give it a go? Seanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Hmmm ... working height of 10m ... max platform height of 7.5m ... rigging points ... that sounds like it's going to involve holding 10m of motor chain a couple of feet above the level of the top of your head while you attach it to the point. Sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant experience ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 ... that sounds like it's going to involve holding 10m of motor chain a couple of feet above the level of the top of your headIt doesn't have to, with good technique (and a pulley). But depending on what the rigging points actually are, there may be other problems. For example, fitting a beam clamp a couple of feet above head height can be really nasty. Really, the only advantage of a trailer-mount over a push-around Genie is the 'outreach' - but if you're habitually working at maximum height, it doesn't have any outreach. It does still have all its disadvantages compared to a Genie though, its still bulky to store and a pain to move around. There are Genies available that can get to 10m (on a flat floor) without requiring outriggers, *much* quicker and easier to move around than a trailer mount. Really, I think "suck it and see" is the way forward - hire the machine and give it a try, gain first hand experience rather than relying on the word of some random rigger. For goodness sake, thats barely better than asking advice from a bunch of complete strangers on the internet! ;) Seanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdtap Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 'loJust from recent experience we have a genie lift that can reach all the way up to the grid... but it is a bit awkward getting there with so many bars in the way. You can push the bars out of the way on the way up but they may swing back and push on the lift and they are in your way when you descend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotboy Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Scissor lifts or Genies are excellent for access, but if wooden roof supports are being replaced be careful that your Stage will take their weight - some of them weigh several tonnes, and can go through timber floors (One wheel going through is a speciality) A Tallescope takes up space, but is much lighter. A Scaff Tower might be your best bet - a fag building it each time, but takes up less space and doesn't weigh much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maeterlinck Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Genie make very good lifts. The AWP we have here is great and really quick. The mobility range look very good and I've heard good recomendations. They are the ones that are similar to a scissor lifts and move around under power. I think there are also models that have an outreach module.You're best bet would be to find an access company around you and ask if you can go and have a play. Find something you're comfortable with and does what you need it to. I would make sure you have a lift that can go slightly higher than you need. This way you have the ability to have the basket where you need it, not where it can go. Thirdtap: Is it a good idea to have stuff under the basket that stops it returning to ground unobstructed? A panicing cleaner running to help you may not see the obstruction as they pull the emergency lowering valve and get you stuck 30ft in the air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Genie make very good lifts. The AWP we have here is great and really quick. The mobility range look very good and I've heard good recomendations. They are the ones that are similar to a scissor lifts and move around under power. The small self powered runabout Genies don't make it to 10m, by the time you're looking at a self-propelled machine that gets to that height the weight may be starting to get a bit much. The AWP is the the 'standard' Genie lift in most of our regular experience, but I'd really recommend getting a look at the IWP series too. The 11m version is twice the weight of the AWP (600kg as opposed to 300kg), but it doesn't require outriggers (on a flat floor) making it really quick and easy to move. It has wheels on a hydraulic jacking mechanism - you stomp on the pedal a few times lifting it onto its wheels, push it from a to b, pull the trigger (which drops it back onto its feet) and you're ready to go. Seanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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