paulears Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Under the current scheme of things, paying anybody in cash is amazingly daft - the revenue can (and should) be very wary about this practice. If they can't be sure the people you pay are true self-emplyed people, then they can slap you for all their tax and national insurance - which is a huge amount. Plenty of people are involved with the black economy, but the revenue are very behind in their paperwork processing - you may be in their pile, which they will get to eventually - or simply pick you out for a spot check. My accountant now offers insurance against being singled out for special inspection. Luck always runs out. Cash payments, or even receipts are considered risky, and possible a reason for looking just that little bit further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundo26 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Also, just a word on common sense... de-rig... one of the freelancers... wheeled flightcase... loads of other stuff... brand new £4500 graphic switcher... hit the deck ...there went any hope of any profit...So why didn't you claim it on his insurance? You do book freelancers with PL, don't you? <_< Sorry to bump this over a side issue, but I'm still waiting for an answer to that question... soundo26: Do you ensure that your (presumably self-employed) freelancers carry their own Public Liability Insurance??? Yes we do, the guy in this case was actually working through an agency, after much wrangling we managed to get £100 towards the repair, the item has never been fully functional since that episode despite being "repaired" by the manufacturer. insurance claims are not all they're cracked up to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 did you go back to the manufacturer and tell them that the repair hadn't been fully successful and describe the issue to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 On a related note, what do people do about long days? My usual policy is to work up to 12 hours for a normal daily rate, but expect more if the work is longer than that. Some corporate parties and awards shows, etc, can require you to be on-site for 16 hours. In my view this it is unreasonable to do this for a normal rate as (1) you are so wrecked afterwards it takes you a day to recover and (2) you are letting yourself be exploited by working silly hours without getting extra for it. I don't think I've come across any clients who've objected to this, but I'm sure I will eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 On a related note, what do people do about long days?Personally I would suspect that for any freelancer, a 'day' should be specified in any particular contract. If you decide that YOUR day is 12 hours, then the contract or the terms of employment that you present to the employer (which must be agreed in advance of course) should reflect that. Similarly you are responsible for stating CLEARLY in said contract or terms that any additional hours should be chargeable to that employer at either a pro-rata rate or A N Other rate as specified in said contract/terms. Or is that just me being over-simplistic?? TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Or is that just me being over-simplistic?? I don't think so. I have effectively agreed the same with all my current clients and would make it clear to any new ones. But I'm interested in knowing how other people handle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySteve Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 On a related note, what do people do about long days?Basically a day for me is 12hours... with a 13th hour there as leeway (sp?) for those jobs which over run by 10mins, 30 mins... it's a kinda middle ground so to speak. After 13 hours it's another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Or is that just me being over-simplistic??Not at all; that's pretty well bang on the mark, certainly where self-employed freelancers are concerned. Quite some time ago, the PSA tried to encourage self-employed freelancers to state their Terms & Conditions of supply in advance and send them in to clients as a part of their CV "package". A draft document was produced as a guide template, although it seems to have disappeared :( A short time before (c. 1993), I'd come up with something of my own, which clearly stated my rates, additional charges for long (>12) hours, payments terms, late payment penalties and a few other things about travel, catering, accomodation and PDs (those were the days :)) I showed it to a few of my more trusted colleagues and clients, in order to get some feedback; which was identical in every case... Well, there's nothing in there that's unreasonable and the overall tone is OK; but Nick... how are you going to get any work if you try to enforce it??? Things have changed a bit since then, in some ways for the better. I raised the issue of hours with a client the other day, saying that from September this year, I would be "less keen" to work over 12 hours and from the start of next year I wouldn't be doing it any more; sorry, but... :( Their response was that they were having similar issues with their full time crew and that it's highly likely a 12 hour policy will be in place soon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonyAD Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 On a related note, what do people do about long days? Some of the clients I work for will pay freelancers a day and a half rate when we do the corporate awards gigs that go on for more than 12 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieR Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 On a related note, what do people do about long days? Being a company that uses freelance staff frequently, we have often been caught out with long days - especially the ones where things have run well over schedule (normally the clients fault) and not having a relief crew or other 'plan' to cover. This results in some very tired crews which is not good working practice. So, these days we try to ensure that the schedule is agreed with the client as accurately as possible and add relief crews if the hours are going to be in excess of 12 hours. Obviously, this puts some clients off a bit but I can then explain to them to reasons being this in terms of safety and quality of the job. If only all the other companies did this too! I'm also working on a new 'contract' for clients to sign which will detail their obligations for the event (e.g. schedule, local crew, catering, breaks, etc) and hopefully will make the event a much more enjoyable experience for everyone. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Most freelancers I know are pretty well of the view that long days over 12 hours should pay a double day, as they start to affect your ability to work safely (or at all) the following day; however the compromise seems to be 1.5 days, certainly for award type shows. One former client used to call the whole crew for the load in and then break half of them after rehearsals had finished. The broken crew would get some rest and come back for the derig, at which point the show crew would leave. Mind you, bearing in mind the recent discussion on Long Working Hours and the medical evidence that you are less competent to drive after 18 hours awake, than you are at the legal alcohol limit; it's probably a good idea to start trying to include some kind of travel / accomodation package in any deal involving long hours. Or just say "No" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Personally I would suspect that for any freelancer, a 'day' should be specified in any particular contract. If you decide that YOUR day is 12 hours, then the contract or the terms of employment that you present to the employer (which must be agreed in advance of course) should reflect that. Similarly you are responsible for stating CLEARLY in said contract or terms that any additional hours should be chargeable to that employer at either a pro-rata rate or A N Other rate as specified in said contract/terms.(My bold). Sorry, I should have mentioned this before, but (and this is not a dig at Ynot - several people labour under this misapprehension)... (Self-employed) Freelancers are NOT "employed by employers" - they have their "services engaged by clients". This is NOT being @n@l or over-proud, it's a VITAL thing to consider when dealing with the Inland Revenue - tell them that you "employ" freelancers and you run the risk of lining yourself up for a MAJOR Tax / NI arrears bill, possibly running into several thousand pounds. This is another reason that freelancers should provide and all-in quote for a job in advance of a purchase order being issued, including "extras" like travel, parking, PDs, etc. - it demonstrates that they are taking an "Entrepreneurial Risk". The issuing of Terms of Supply by a freelancer should not be regarded as an attempt to "dictate" to clients, but as a means of demonstrating true Self-Employment and therefore protecting them from the unwanted attentions of the Taxman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiglets Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Lightnix you have posted 1763 posts since 03 if it takes you 15 mins to read and then type an answer that is 26445 minutes of work divide by 60 equals 440.75 hours this is 36days. I charge £180 that is £6611.25 ! do you chat at work and does this time reflect in your rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 ... And your point is .......? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 That's 1.4 post per day. 21 mins by your reckoning. Not that long. Edit: I've just noticed that it is 15 mins a day less than Twiglets at the moment! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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