greenalien Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 I would be interested to know how the forum members think the new noise regulations will affect nightclubs. As entertainment venues, they don't need to comply immediately, but I suspect a lot of venues are going to need substantial changes over the next couple of years. In particular, I am thinking of 2 specific situations - 1) Noise levels in DJ operating areas - will all DJ areas now need to be enclosed and soundproofed for the protection of DJ's? 2) Noise levels in bars that are in the same room / space as the dancefloor and PA rig - will bars need to be separated / soundproofed, for the protection of bar staff? (I've found that bar staff seem reluctant to wear ear protection, even when it's offered, as they can't then hear what their customers are trying to order - also, many seem to be students working part time and they aren't aware of any noise hazard) Clubs tend to be pretty noisy environments, but I have never heard of any being checked by HSE - does this happen? All comments welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 OK... I'll bite.... It probably won't, unless the rather overworked Local Authority Health and Safety Inspectors actually start prosecuting clubs. From the legal perspective however, the CoNaWR requires that risk from noise exposure should be eliminated at source or reduced to a minimum. This will be the biggest area of contention, as the engineering method to reduce noise at source is simply to turn it down. Given that industry will be required to spend money to quieten equipment and processes, it is hard to argue for keeping sound systems at high levels - other than it is the wanted product, not teh byproduct. Furthermore, there will be a requirement for assessment to take place, to identify the Daily Personal Noise Exposure (LEP,d); to ensure that the actions for the lower and upper exposure action levels are complied with, and that the new exposure limit value (87dBA LEP,d) is not exceeded. The hierarchy of noise control is as follows: - Eliminate the noise noise source- Control the noise at source- Introduce measures to change work practice (rotas etc.) and workplace layout (provision of quiet areas, sound directed away from bar areas etc.)- Lastly, personal protective equipment may be considered. So, it depends on how forcefully the legislation is implemented. All of these principles apply now in the existing regulations - it's just the 1st & 2nd action levels have now dropped 5dB and a new maximum level has been introduced. If anyone is interested, I have various papers on the topic.... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Hi Simon. I'd be very interested in seeing documentation and other written work on this matter. to add to the post, more and more people are turning to the new "mini" line arrays to help towards combatting the problems of noise levels for live music venues. Its important to note that I say "the problems of noise levels" and not "this new law" as I fully agree that levels should be kept to a safe and reasonable limit at all times. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 No problem - I'll send some stuff via PM or e-mail... Probably Tuesday or Wednesday before I'm back in the office. Anyone else interested? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayselway Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Yes please Simon - Any documentation would be greatly appreciated I have a nightclub who are currently struggling with this, as the noise police are due in this week, and in order to have compliance with their recommendations, the system is so quiet that you can hear people ordering drinks at the bar (which is incidentally at the far end of the room to the booth). *hmph* Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Anyone else interested? Yes please! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 yes please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Simon, this may be something better to add to a website, the BR wiki maybe or somewhere on a personal homepage. I suspect you'll find a few people will crop up going "me also" BTW "Me Also, please" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 MarkPAman, Trussmonkey, TeeJay, If you send your e-mail addresses, I will send you the files I've already sent out to others earlier in this thread. However, as far as a website entry goes, there's plenty of information out there on the web... Read the actual Control of Noise at Work Regulations here (essential reading for insomniacs) Read the HSE's advice to employers here. It won't cure sleep apnoea, but it's better than the regs themselves! The data I have provided so far has a comparison between the '89 regs and the '05 version (should still be available on the net), has some of my teaching notes, and some research reports on Noise from Pubs and Clubs. I'll find some of the other URLs, but cannot provide all the data due to copyright restrictions. regards, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayselway Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Cheers for the info Simon, whilst being quite wordy, it was very useful - esp the bit about 'Chillout Rooms' being louder than other areas of clulbs / bars! Thanks again :blink: Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenalien Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Simon Having opened this can of worms, I'd also appreciate a copy of your files... However, what I am really asking about is actual practice as observed by forum members, rather than the theory and regulations. In my experience, many small venues ignore noise regs. This seems to be a matter of ineffective enforcement coupled with ignorance by venue owners - all they know is that their customers want loud music.... The profit margins for small venues are often minimal, so no money gets spent unless there is a threat of closure - and imagine the cost and inconvenience of soundproofing a bar that's in the same room as the dancefloor. How many clubs/bars/pubs do you know that even own a sound level meter, let alone know how to use one. Risk Assesment? What's that? And how many venues have sound systems installed by people with age-induced hearing loss, and thus have the HF response unnecessarily boosted?(that means installed by anyone over 25...including me! ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I tend not to see too many Environmental Heath Officers nowadays, so cannot comment on the rate of inspection and prosecution or improvement notices. I do not suppose it is very high.... I'd hazard a guess that more effort is applied to prevent noise from pubs and clubs from having an environmental impact! Your comments are very true - poor installation practises, non existent knowledge of the law, and a steady stream of people* willing to work for hours next to a badly positioned loudspeaker who know that should they complain, there's many more who will take their place.... Like most laws, it takes time for it to filter through, and you'll never stamp out bad practise completely. Who knows.... perhaps there will be a clampdown on noisy systems, but I suspect that won't happen too soon. In the meantime, more and more people* will suffer noise induced hearing loss! Simon * In these parts, 'people' and 'students' is pretty much interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Locally most live music bars/clubs have a pot of the disposable foam earplugs sitting behind the bar for staff use.Some also offer said earplugs to the public. I always have my own anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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