vocalist with LOW vocal output

[chatterbox]

We are regularly doing sound for a tribute show where the principal has a Very low vocal output (probably due to the fact that he is imitating a voice).

 

We have tried different mics and also tried taking a direct out of his mixer channel into a compressor and then into another mixer channel - which does give a boost slightly and also thicken the voice.

 

It is a constant struggle to get his voice up, and also has the effect of limiting how hard you can push the whole system because his mic is so vunerable to feed back.....

Monitors are not a problem as all the show is in-ears.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated - (except "change the singer")

 

Thanks,

[char-p]

Is the principle mic'ed with clips, or stands?

 

How is the stage set with regard to the FOH sound system, is it possible to change the system set-up to increase the gain before feedback? - eg more fill speakers giving out less thereby decreasing overall room level?

 

Paul

[chatterbox]

Is the principle mic'ed with clips, or stands?

 

How is the stage set with regard to the FOH sound system, is it possible to change the system set-up to increase the gain before feedback? - eg more fill speakers giving out less thereby decreasing overall room level?

 

Paul

 

 

Mic on a stand - (have tried corded and radio mics). FOH system cannot be set up with lots of speakers as we are governed by the differenct venues every night, so it is usually just 2 x FOH stacks.

[Bobbsy]

You don't mention what mic you're using but a change here can often help. I often find I can get better GBF (and nicer sound too) using the Audix OM series of mics, probably an OM5, OM6 or OM7 depending on how tight a pattern you can persuade your singer to work within.

 

Details of the Audix mics can be found at: http://www.audixusa.com/products.html

 

Bob

[Tom R]

I've heard that gaffa tape and a second microphone works wonders

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=13651

 

** laughs out loud **

 

BUT on a serious note - have you tried headset microphones? You tend to get a much higher vocal output and you can get some quite discreet ones nowadays...they also tend to be pretty good for gain before feedback...

 

Tom

 

:)

[Rob_Beech]

You mention feedback is your main battle.

Is it a particular range or can it be anywhere?

it may be worth a decent parametric eq inserted into the vocal channel somewhere. that may give you a little more headroom.

I say a para not a graphic as with a graphic you tend to want to take more an more out until you're back at square one, only driving the preamps harder.

 

Check speaker placement, I dont just mean keep them infront of the mic as thats the obvious choice. Make sure that no sound is hitting a wall 3 feet from the speaker itself. Wide dispersion cabs should be aimed properly to avoid and early reflections. In some respect tighter dispersion cabs even more so as you tend to have a higher SPL from them.

 

Rob

[Jivemaster]

There may be something to be gained from "feedback eliminaters" made by Sabine amongst others

[StevieR]

If you can't change the FOH system, then its either mics or pre-amps.

 

What mics have you tried so far?

 

Also, it might be worth experimenting with a separate mic pre-amp (which tend to be cleaner and have a little more headroom) or perhaps a full vocal channel - e.g. Focusright.

 

Steve

[paulears]

There may be something to be gained from "feedback eliminaters" made by Sabine amongst others

 

if you are working close to the feedback limit, these devices are not always what people think - you can hear the notches, and although they have a place when the problem mic is static, once the talent moves they become not so good - the trouble being it has to feedback for the auto notch to zap the offending pitch - something that sounds really bad live. Then the talent moves, and another different resonance occurs, so it feeds back again, and again. Before long you've uskced out so much the quaility starts to sound very odd, like a one up, one down graphic - nasty!

 

If you are on in-ears, feedback isn't going to cause monitor issues, so maybe a hyper-cardioid may work, like the sennheiser 845.

 

I've also found Shure SM86 and 87 to be pretty good, up close.

[jamesperrett]

I would second the recommendation for those Audix mics. The OM7 is supposed to be extremely good at bringing out the best in a quiet voice.

 

I would also avoid using any compression - it will only serve to reduce the maximum level that you can obtain before feedback. Keep the vocal path simple but of good quality - a reasonable mixer is all that you need to start with. There's absolutely no need to go daisy-chaining channels in the quest for more gain - most modern mixers will have enough to start with. Also avoid any boost on the eq - keep the eq as flat as possible and only cut frequencies if the character of the voice demands it.

 

Think carefully about the position of the mic relative to the speakers and relative to the mics polar pattern. Some highly directional mics have sidelobes in their polar pattern which need to be considered. I'm not a big fan of feedback eliminators but sometimes they are useful when all else fails. Set them up properly before the show rather than have them hunt for feedback during the show as, the longer they hunt for feedback, the more they just bring everything down.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[JamesRF]

I'll third that Audix recommendation, the OM7 is stunning!

If that doesn't work your going to need to start looking through your whole audio chain to see where the weak link is. If (like it sounds) your using venue systems each night you may have to start looking at taking some other kit along with you to ensure a good sound for each performance. I wouldn't start inserting more stuff like EQ's and compressors into the chain until your sure you've got sensible kit everywhere else, because it won't be a final answer.

Ah, you know you'll be fine with a Midas and some L'Acoustics on the truck! ;)

[Mark Payne]

Did someone suggest this already?.......

 

Turn him down in his ears. Sometimes they back off because they are relaxing into the nice monitor mix too much.

Make him work a little harder for it.

 

M

[Rob_Beech]

Ah, you know you'll be fine with a Midas and some L'Acoustics on the truck!

 

Dont see how this would help.

As with everything you need to be able to use it. throwing an L'Acoustic system up (no matter what models) wont make the vocal any stronger.

I agree the OM7 is a good mic though and maybe one for the list of things to try. I'm sure most engineers would be happy with you using your own mic in this instance. If not, explain the situation to them, if they still dont get it, let them try and mix with a 58 ;). Ask again during the soundcheck.

 

 

Rob

 

Something I thought of Mark, but too many people frown at this also. Bit of PITA really, sometimes its something that has to be done, shall we say, quietly. As if you tell them you are turning it down to make them sing louder they'll often not.

I'm saying this for the benefit of the OP by the way ;)

 

 

2nd edit ;)

 

Its something I try and do when I'm on stage rather than out front. I'll try and do the very small amounts of singing I do close and, loud, give the engineer something to work with as I know what its like. Its something I have trouble with when using my IEM's but not with wedges. Learning curve I guess. Probably better for everyone if I didn't sing anyway.

(I'm expecting a few replies from people who have worked with me agreeing now, let not get OT).

 

 

Rob...

 

 

3rd ed.. only kidding

[andy_s]

forget technology - send the quiet one for some singing lessons. what he needs is a bit of technique.

[drowner77]

Is anyone else curious what kind of Tribute band it is?? I'd like to know because I am curious and it might help in determining what kind of mic or tech answer might be suitable.

 

 

O.K, it's \that I am just really curious.. :)