getting started with a light show

[The Boogie Man]

Hi Troops, Can I pick your brains?

 

I'm a solo performer, pubs, clubs etc, But the nature of the act is hard to describe. It's only me but with the stage show and running round it's a big show ( if that makes any sense ) Have a quick look at the start of this vid and you'll get what I mean.

http://www.mrriff.com/secondary%20pages/video%20page.htm

(thats not a plug, just for reference )

 

I've got my own sound system and now I want to add back drops and a light show.

Sound I'm ok with ( sort of ) but I don't really know where to start with lights.

any help would be greatly welcomed.

cheers

Baz Walton

[landy]

It all depends on the usual questions, what do you want to do an the ££££s.

 

Back drops come in various sizes and colours up to a star cloth territory. Personally I would go for a plain cloth and hang smaller ones in front with who you are / tour graphics on. Then in the small venues you can just throw up the small banners. The bigger venues with there own Tabs the same can be done. You will need a levitation device for the back drops / Cloth In a pole and stand fashion.

 

As for lighting a small simple Dimmer and desk (DMX able for expansion later) a pair of stands and cable in between. as for lamps I might say floor cans 9 with loww wattage lamps as might have limited power) they can be ridged on a g clamp or on the floor and are simple (when your needs and knowledge improves then go for profiles etc) 4 lamps on the stands and two plus on the floor.

 

The thing to do is rent some bits see how thy work and what they can do for you. in the try before you buy way.

[Ynot]

I've got my own sound system and now I want to add back drops and a light show.

Sound I'm ok with ( sort of ) but I don't really know where to start with lights.

Hi Baz - welcome to the Blue Room.

Nice vid - snazzy bit of guitar, too!

So you're 'Mr Riff' then, yes?

 

Anyway, to the question.....

To answer, you really MUST give us more info.....

What size gig are you expecting to play? More marquees, or pubs/clubs/theatres/stadia??

What sort of budget do you have? £10? $500? £50K???

That sorta thing..

 

TD

[Rich newby]

From the vid I also caught a glimpse of a few pars and some scanners. Are these yours? If so are you planing to extend that rig?

 

Rich

[The Boogie Man]

Thanx for the welcome guys. Yes I'm Mr Riff. see what I mean about it being a big show but just one person.

 

It's a bit difficult to estimate a budget when you have know idea what anything costs ( if lights are anything like music gear it'll cost ten times what ever I budget

 

I was more concerned about setting off in the right direction.

 

I've been told that a lot of the stuff takes a lot of power and plugs, but someone else said that led is the way to go.

 

as I move around a lot I'd like to be able to have lights that we could put in each corner to turn the whole stage into a sort of mini theatre that id could run from the stage. the main thing id like is to be able to have black outs at the end of songs an the abiity to have certain programs that could have particular light effects for bits of the show.

 

Is this DMX thing the same as the midi I would use to control patch changes in my digitech quads.

cheers baz

 

to rich newby, no mate all that stuff was there at the festival. I've got nout light wise.

cheers

baz

[Rich newby]

Okie dokie then. To start with, you are probably looking at £5-10k budget depending on what you get. A basic list is as follows, I will put an example of gear for about what you need beside;

 

 

A lighting desk-If you have the budget something like a Zero88 frog(sorry Gareth!) or if budget does not allow, a zero88 Jester.

Dimmers- Some of the best in your price range would be the Zero88 beta packs, fantastic dimmers.

Lanterns-This is entirely upto you, do you want a par can rig or a Profile and Fresnel rig? (IL explain later)

Rigging- Probably some form of truss structure, or large winch T bar stands.

 

Ok, Fresnel's and profiles. The Fresnel (pronounced Frnel(silent s)) is the sort of Flood light type light, it often has barn doors so you can trim the boundary's of the light. It is called a Fresnel due to its lens. A profile is the spot light type light, you can get them in zoom versions or fixed, they have a focus to determine the sharpness of the edges of the light, and shutters to again trim the light. You can put irises in the lights to make the size of the beam smaller.

 

Par cans- These re the famous Rock + roll lanterns, much cheaper, but much more basic. The size of the beam is determined on the combines reflector and lamp that is fitted. They have no focus and no zoom features, simply a can with a bulb.

 

LED is becoming more and more popular now, they offer the advantages of colour changing and linger bulb life, but they are much more expensive and are not as bright as a conventional light.

 

And finally Yes, you will need alot of power, the dimmers alone take 4 ceeforms, with other little bits and bobs generally running on 13a.

 

 

Um thats all I can think of for now , just ask some more if you have any more questions

HTH

Rich

[The Boogie Man]

Are these dimmers the switch that turns each light on and off then when they are doing sound to light or manual from a desk?

cheers baz

[Rich newby]

Um, the dimmers are the bit which the lights are plugged into, and the desk controls. They send how ever much power to the light, depending on what the desk tells them. So for example a standard dimmer has 6 channels, each channel with 2 sockets on. A standard dimmer is around the 2.2Kw range, so the 2 sockets can be used when you are only running 1kw lanterns. Each channel can be controlled separately, so if the desk says "Channel 4 at 73%" to the dimmers, the dimmers will put 73% of the power the 1 or 2 lanterns plugged into channel 4. The cable and signal that connects the Dimmers and the desk is called DMX.

 

So effectivly the desk is the switch.

HTH

Rich

Unqualified Amateur & School Student

[Brian]

A lighting desk-If you have the budget something like a Zero88 frog(sorry Gareth!) or if budget does not allow, a zero88 Jester.

Trouble is, with it being a one-man show, who is going to operate it.

 

I've just bought one of http://www.musik-service.de/images/ProduX/395742281j00.jpg for my self-operated band kit.

[EDIT] Just to clarify - I don't play in a band; I have a lighting package which is hired out to band for them to self-operate.

[Rich newby]

Oops! Of course.

 

Oh and before I get my head bitten off for the smallest detail in my answers, they are meant as an easy to understand guide. Just thought I better confirm!

 

Cheers

Rich

[paulears]

One thing few have mentioned is the fact that moving into lighting creates loads of new issues. With your sound kit, you're obviously aware of how big it is and the set-up time. Doing lighting in the style you suggest - locations on stage and cues etc - really say to me that you will also need extra people. To rig and operate. These mean more transport issues and of course, cost. Brian has the simplish answer - with the foot operated control. you simply stamp on a button to trigger the full up, the blackout, the chases etc. Snag is if this fits with your act, which seems fairly lively - do you want to be rooted to one spot just to make a blackout happen?

 

Rich gives a price - to be honest, this could be well out. You can't price things like this up properly without serious thought. If you want lots of light and need it to be impressive then things like PAR cans are not that expensive, but they need things to hang them on, so you get into stands, multicore power cables, dimmers and it starts to get a bit out of control. People enthuse over LED lighting. Cost effective, long ife-span (we hope) but at the moment they are for seeing - as in the audience see them strobe, colour change do nice effects - but they are not bright enough to make you stand out. Moving head equipment lets you highlight certain stage areas, and can offer nice effects too, but they are heavy, expensive, awkward to rig just where you want and are pretty unreliable when toured a lot - lamps get damaged more often than wearing out too if the units aren't really cared for.

 

Looking at the video - I suspect you often don't have long set up times and wonder if you have considered the changes and cost of taking this step forward. My best advice is that you need a fair bit of kit to make it look good, and this kit is pain to transport and rig - and despite on stage control by you, really needs a body to make it work sympatheticall and musically - you're a performer can you cope with doing two jobs at once? I can't. I've tried. In the end my options soon reverted to a few buttons for colours and a blackout - trying to add in cues during songs really messed me up. One way to test it is to play one of your songs and during it shout out a few cues as if ordering somebody to do it, remembering each one has to come fractionally before the 'hit' point. As in, la la la RED, la la la la,BLUE, la, YELLOW - see if you can do it? If the answer is no - then cost in the extra body! Far too early to get hung up on the actual kit. Fresnels and profiles - I suspect not. Simple and quick is the word for touring. Par cans are the simplest and come in two versions - bright and not so bright. If power is limited, as it is in many places, then the lower power versions mean you can have more of them, and they 'look' better. To put this into perspective, an ordinary 13A socket can only power 3 of the bright ones. If you need more, the venue MUST have real professional power in sizeable quantities. If you are only part of the event, others will also be looking for the same thing - see the problems ahead.

 

Feel free to ask any questions and some of the more knowledgable members may well have solutions that allow you to create what you have in your head. No real need to become a lighting expert here - just post away!

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers guys, The advice is really helpful. this is just what I wanted, to get an Idea of the pitfalls and logistics before wading in.

 

I did see this demo clip here http://www.innovateshowcontrols.com/ on this site in the faq part of the lighting forum.

Are the lights in the video the expensive and fragile ones you mention paul? I wondered if 4 of these moving lights, one in each corner would make for a bit of a show. remember most of the time the venues I'm playing in are doing well if there is even a stage.

 

I was wondering if it might be possible to have a light show pre-programmed into a laptop like in the video, Not exact cues ( I understand what you mean about cues paul, I have to alter the effects racks on stage as it is, I dont think I could worry about anything else ) no I wondered about the idea of some scenes? for particular somgs and then just sound to light for tunes where im running around. can you programme the events? into a desk or laptop and then work it by midi or somthing.

thanks again for all the good advice

cheers

baz

[Guest mattladkinlx]

Hi there,

 

To your question about the clip yes they are moving lights and so can be very fragile if not looked after properly. Also with short amounts of time, can be very awkward to set-up and get working!

 

There are a number of both lighting desks and PC programs that allow you to create lighting "scenes" that can then be replayed at the touch of a button or fader.

 

The Zero 88 Jester and Frog Series both have the ability to program submasters (a fader that holds a lighting state) which when put up can run that scene or chase sequence.

 

Also Martin LightJockey is a PC based lighting controller that allows you to do similar and has the advantage of a TouchScreen add-on wher you put all of the lighting scenes into a button grid and then hit the button to make it work.

 

It all depends on what you want. Alternatively you could look at something more pricey that allows you to use a handheld PC via WiFi to control it - but you would belooking at far more money!

 

The problem with Lighting Desks (and PC based controllers) is that for the lower end of the market using Midi Automation becomes more tricky - but can be done and so more money would be needed to use Midi.

 

If your show is a fixed routie there is no reason why you couldnt use a fixed "cue stack" (where you have a number of scenes in a list that you play back with 1 button) and work the changes into the show (I.e you know that after this line you move to the desk and hit "GO" to move to the next lighting state.

 

If not then you would be better off using something like a desk mentionad above and either use a submaster set-up or touchscreen with a PC Program. It may be an idea to get a free appointment with a lighting company to come out and see your show and suggest what would be best for you (and then give a price!)

Hope this helps,

 

Matt

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers matt, I'm pretty mothering about all my gear so being treated properly wouldnt be a problem.

are those moving lights expensive? and are they just one colour like a par can or do they change like led? I'm thinking I already use over 10 13amp plugs now so a bank of cans say four aside is another 8 plugs. I liked the idea of a laptop a rack unit and then 4 moving lights that way if there was no way of mounting something up high I could put them on something behind the pa as side lights. would they be bright enough for pub or would they look pants.

cheers

baz

[Guest Mattladkin]

Moving lights depend a lot on the price and so does the quailty.

 

Basically a moving light allows you to control the position, colour, gobo (pattern) and with cost other features.

 

A basic mover can start from around £300 for a cheap and chearful DMX light and then go up to around £10,000+ for very high quality lanterns!

 

They would be perfectly bright enough for Pub environements however depending on the roudiness of the crowd it may be an idea to place them awy from audience as drinks usually dont mix that well with any form of electronics but especially moving lights due to the internal parts.

 

My thoughts go to either Acme Effects Lighting for their effects - look at possibly the Spot Knight or Spot King (around £400 - £1000 each) or the smaller Robe Lighting Kit (RRP £850 for the 150XT or £1500 for the 250XT)

 

I would go for at least 150w MSD Lamp but preferably a 250w MSD>

 

The only concerns I have with movers for a 1 man show is both the set-up time and maintainance costs(bear in mind the lamps cost around £100 each to replace and last for under 200 hours - where as a PAR lamp is around £20 and lasts for 350 / 400 hours and also running costs would be about £100 per light per year not including the lamps)

 

I would stick to generic (basic lighting) and remember that a ring main accepts 32A of power (I.e 15 PAR 64's (1kw) or 30 PAR 56's (500w))

 

Also remeber that most of the effects you have seen with movers have been through Haze (a form of smoke) and without it they dont look as good!)

 

Good punchy PAR effects can look much better than movers as after all they are paying to see you and not a light show!

 

I would go for a number of PAR 56 cans - both on stands and floor (possibly 6 each side on stands acting as sidelight and 6 floor cans at the front) and run these through Zero 88 AlphaPak dimmers (each 3 channel) mounted on the stands with 2 PAR cans going into each channel.

 

Control that through Martin LightJockey (at a cost of £1000 for the USB - DMX convertor) and go from there.

 

If you still want more snazzy effects go for some LED battens at the rear of the stage as uplighters hitting the audience so they will colour change to the music.

 

Only then when you have a good rig think about addng in moving lights.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Matt

 

P.S: PM sent!