Show Automation

[bobmoose]

Hi there,

 

I need help with an idea that I think is possible, I'll let you decide!!

 

I run and manage a rock covers show, we are constantly on the road. We've always tried to keep the show up to date, both musically and visually. We already run quite a large lighting show, currently- Mac 250's, strobes, colour changers etc. But now the next step is required to really set the show apart from anything else, giving the audience the feel of a big rock gig, in comparatively small venues. 200-2500cap.

 

For some time I've been considering syncing our light show to the music. Not entirely sure on the best way to do this. But my plan is to use sequencer software. I currently use Mackie Traktion for some home recording. So the plan would be, Traktion(or similar) on a laptop running the entire set as one project (1hr 45mins). This should allow me to use one track for a click to the drummer, some tracks for backing(very little, Fx and strings etc.) and one for MIDI triggering to lighting control.

 

Are ya with me so far??

 

Next is the lighting control surface. Currently using a SGM studio 24 which to be honest has seen better days. It,s MIDI functions are limited to the calling of registers and register pages apparently, I have yet to manage to get this to work.

Not that it matters, as I wish to invest in a Chroma Q Colour Web, a 480 channel backdrop, pushing the show well over 512.

 

I need to know the best programme to control the Colour Web and my existing lights? The Web can do video but I don't really have a need for that, I won't be running enough of it. Just shapes, lines, designs, colour changes. The programme also needs to except MIDI, in such a way that the MIDI info from the sequencer can call up sequences in the lighting software.

 

Any suggestion on any way of setting such a show? I'm open to any method of achieving the end result. SMPTE, MSC, MIDI.

 

Thanks BOB

[LDODD]

Now - I do expect some abuse for this comment, but......

 

......Take a look at Pharos.

 

It has all the Midi inputs and also will allow you to feed Jpegs or Mpegs into your colour web...

 

That's all I'm going to add, as I need to get away before I get a hammering for introducing an "architectural" controller to the table....

[dbuckley]

I'm not aware of the Pharos product, but did have something similar in mind.

 

Using a sequencer to drive the show isn't completely insane, and can work. I'm more worried about the reliability of the software, though those problems too are solvable. Either a better solution (maybe a hardware sequencer would be far more sensible rather than a lappie and a bit of software) or some sort of failsafe arrangement.

 

Here's what I would do.

 

Set your sequencer up to do what you want to do, and set it to output MTC, MIDI time code. Get Amex card, and purchase an Artistic Licence Four Play. Plug sequencer into four play.

 

Hire yourself the best LD you can find, and hire whatever desk he wants. plug desk into four play and four play into lights.

 

Press record on four play, press play on sequencer, sit back, watch show and the LD earn his hire fee. Save show on four play, take on road and enjoy.

 

You could get more creative, and save each song separately both in the sequencer and in the four play, so each track starts at a different MTC offset. The four play will then pick the right track based on incoming MTC. Then you could vary the setlist, and more importantly, it would allow you to edit the show, adding new tracks, dropping old ones etc.

 

There are a few alternative devices to the four play (which I've never actually seen, mind you) but Artistic Licence are UK based and know what they are about, so I believe it will do exactly what it says on the can.

[Rowan]

surely to get the tempo consistent you would need a click track, otherwise it will all get horribly out of sync

 

EDIT: sorry, just re-read the original post

[leofric]

I,ve got an idea, employ a LD even a bad one will do a better job than a machine. Remember even the Pink Floyds click track was run by the lighting department not the other way round.

[dbuckley]

I,ve got an idea, employ a LD even a bad one will do a better job than a machine.

Actually, thats far from true. If you are dealing with the sort of show that I think the OP is doing, which is a canned theatrical presentation which sounds like rock and roll but is in fact theme park theatre, then a good LD will at best only screw up occaisionally. The machine will get it right every night. The machine, like the band, is just a playback device, the creative effort needs to go in up front, and that is the LDs role.

 

Remember even the Pink Floyds click track was run by the lighting department not the other way round.

Yeah, it was a tad difficult back in the day to sync a 35mm movie projector to a band, so it was considered best that everyone followed the projector.

 

This kind of stuff is standard fare for theme parks, which is a different branch of entertainment technology to live rock and roll, or conference / corporate. The theme park world does things differently, but by chosing which elements to make live and which are canned can deliver one hell of a level of excitement for a "live" performance.

[jfitzpat]

Any suggestion on any way of setting such a show? I'm open to any method of achieving the end result. SMPTE, MSC, MIDI.

 

Well, we do all of them. Which is 'best' depends largely on what you are trying to do. In a theme park environment with a very complex show a click or 'cue' track is used, combined with SMPTE. Show controls runs off SMPTE, live talent 'runs' off the audio click track. Sometimes the track will be paused for variable length audio interact, etc. Longitudinal SMPTE is often used because of the tight sync it provides and the easy integration with video and audio gear.

 

On the other hand, this type of setup might be awefully constricting for a band, especially with frequent venue, gear, and set changes. I have seen quite a few bands be their own 'operators', sometimes with great success. The biggest potential benefit that I see to an LD is that, frankly, many musicians make lousy lighting designers. They tend to be visual literalists (much like many actors make poor theatrical directors).

 

Some months back I wrote a little whitepaper on MIDI control of DMX lights you might be interested in. Several of the case studies are self-operating musicians. You can find it here.

 

Good Luck,

-jjf

[David]

I hyave run several back to back musical theatre tours on SFX show control software.

 

SFX ran the audio playback, sent midi to the strand 500 and Yamaha 01rv 96.

 

It took a bit longer in the tech to program, but on the road it made running the show easier for the crew. The sound opp hit the space bar to start a Q sequence and the PC did the rest.

 

On some numbers SFX triggered all the Qs, on others the board opp did his own Qs which also triggered the sound desk, and on others the sound opp did a manual Q.

 

SFX would be ideal for a band, If you had 10 numbers in your set each number could be programmed, and recalled on command in any order, and as SFX can have up to 16 audio outs, you could give the drummer a click, have BVs on another etc.

 

Saying you are using show control software dose not mean you press go at the start of the show and sit back. Its another tool to make complicated Q sequences easy.

 

 

 

Moderators, its about time the Blue room had a show control section, Show control is with us to stay.

 

David

SORTED

[dbuckley]

... and as SFX can have up to 16 audio outs, you could give the drummer a click, have BVs on another etc.

I would disagree. SFX has multiple outputs, sure, but they are not time locked to each other in the same was as a traditional music sequencer locks tracks. Non-timelocked tracks are entirely adequate for almost all effects purposes, but not for music. The underlying problem is that SFX can't start playing back multiple tracks simultaneously, only in very quick sucession, where quick is quick, but not reproducibly. Stage Research have talked about supporting timelocked tracks (via multi track wav files if memory serves), but to the best of my knowledge isn't there yet and has gone all quiet.

 

Also, SFX just doesnt have the user interface to support sequecning stuff. The modular rewrite is touted to have timeline support (as an alternative to cuelist), which would do it, but so far as far as I know its just talk.

 

Moderators, its about time the Blue room had a show control section, Show control is with us to stay.

I'd support this notion.

[bobmoose]

Thanks for all of your replys, tis indeed a big help.

 

To give an update I think I have settled on lighting software. I am currently looking at Lightfactory, and it seems to have all I need. Matrix effects, different triggering options, 10 DMX Universe and nice cue group options that I can quickly call.

 

Using a sequencer to drive the show isn't completely insane, and can work. I'm more worried about the reliability of the software, though those problems too are solvable.

 

I must admit this worried me, and I like the idea of a sequencer rather than another laptop on stage that will inevititably have me pulling my hair out! This got me thinking and made me simplify my idea. Out of a set of say 30 songs maybe 10 might have backing, the rest I can just call the cue group and sellect 'go cue' manually. I now have to find a sequencer that meets my requirements.

 

As for prerecording the show with a LD, not really an option as our show would change quite a bit and I would prefer to have quick access to tweak the cue's off-line myself. And although the cue's position per song would remain unchanged, given different venues and set-up's certian fixtures may be required to do different movements, for say spot-lighting a guitarist during a solo on a stage that's twice as big as the one the night before.

 

Thanks again for all replys, will try to keep you informed on how it's going. Once running will post pic's and maybe small movie on my website!

 

Moderators, its about time the Blue room had a show control section, Show control is with us to stay.

I also support this idea