Tommo Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 G'day folks, I'm after ideas and circuitry for a 12 volt flickering fire effect. It will be housed inside a large drum onstage so size doesn't matter. I'm thinking 3 or 4 coloured lamps - perhaps MR16. Any ideas? Cheers Tommo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich newby Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Hi, If it were me I would try using a very light cloth, I.e silk, with quite a few 12v computer fans under the cloth. As for lamps, you could try MR16 LED lamps as they will give longer battery life. That is my next question, are you running it off a battery or just a 12v power supply? Is there a reason for 12v? HTHRich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 More info: It's 12v battery powered effect in a mobile barrel. Iso-gel in the top for real flames and LX effect in bottom of drum to make the small fire on top look like it's burning all the way down. Battery powered so there is no trailing cable......... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich newby Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 More info: LX effect in bottom of drum to make the small fire on top look like it's burning all the way down OK, am I being stupid? I take it the drum is some sort of oil drum, in which case you will not be able to see to the bottom of the drum anyway. Is this to be used on stage? If so the audience will only be able to see the top of the drum and not in it so the ISO on its own would probably do the trick. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Can you canibalise a fire effect room heater? find some amber coloured glass and put a lamp under a flicker wheel driven by the heat from the lamp. We don't usually even consider real fire for entertainment use. consider using silk flame pieces please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 I'm part of one of Australia's largest professional theatre companies. All the necessary experience and aprovals are in place for using fire on stage. The drum will have 'air holes' around the lower half. All I'm after is some kind of circuit to flicker 3 or 4 12 v lamps. One idea proposed is: 12v battery powering an inverter then 3 or 4 240v lamps in series with fluro starters powered from that. Ideally I'd like to get rid of the 240v side and just deal with 12v. Tommo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewR Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 IIRC from my phyics lessons Fluro starter coils will kick out lots more than 240v, so that might fry your lamps. Personally I would go with a motor next to each lamp, with a disk attached to the motor to hold a selection of gel. Like a mini effects projector. You could play with the size of disk/distance from motor to lamp, to get some control over the speeds. But it should only require some perspex (or other resonably heat resistant plastic) and some motors. And if you put strips of blackwrap on the disks it will give you a flicker too. Nothing fancy! Rather you than me with real fire though! (last time we had something like that we couldnt stop the fire alarm going off for half an hour, sometimes the A/C should be left on!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich newby Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Ok, now were getting complicated. Would simple electric flicker candle bulbs not be better,? as it is the right colour for fire and it already has the flicker effect built in. The only problem I can think of is that it doesn't have enough flicker and you will not see the effect when its hidden. Otherwise then yes you might have to go down the put and object in the way of the light. HTHRich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Sorry guys, but I think a couple of these responses may indicate a mis-read of Tommo's posts... IIRC from my phyics lessons Fluro starter coils will kick out lots more than 240v, so that might fry your lamps. ...but tommo said....12v battery powering an inverter then 3 or 4 240v lamps in series with fluro starters powered from that Then.. Rather you than me with real fire though! (last time we had something like that we couldnt stop the fire alarm going off for half an hour, sometimes the A/C should be left on!)but Tommo wrote... It's 12v battery powered effect in a mobile barrel. Iso-gel in the top for real flames and LX effect in bottom of drum to make the small fire on top look like it's burning all the way downNO real fire is involved in this effect as far as I can see. Now - to the meat of the question as I see it, the motor plus discs idea Andrew suggests could well be a go-er, but another possibility might be using one or two more small bespoke silk-flame effects in the barrel base, whichwould give a definite flicker effect...Ormaybe make up a larger version, for which I would agree with the use of the LED MR16's as well. TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalmatthew Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Sorry guys, but I think a couple of these responses may indicate a mis-read of Tommo's posts...Rather you than me with real fire though! (last time we had something like that we couldnt stop the fire alarm going off for half an hour, sometimes the A/C should be left on!) but Tommo wrote... It's 12v battery powered effect in a mobile barrel. Iso-gel in the top for real flames and LX effect in bottom of drum to make the small fire on top look like it's burning all the way downNO real fire is involved in this effect as far as I can see.my bold I think you might have misread this bit. The bold says he will use Iso gel for real flames. So he just wants a flicker at the bottom as there will be proper fire at the top. He also says: All the necessary experience and aprovals are in place for using fire on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 It's 12v battery powered effect in a mobile barrel. Iso-gel in the top for real flames and LX effect in bottom of drum to make the small fire on top look like it's burning all the way downNO real fire is involved in this effect as far as I can see.my bold I think you might have misread this bit. The bold says he will use Iso gel for real flames. So he just wants a flicker at the bottom as there will be proper fire at the top. Okay....I may be missing something here, but when I searchedfor ISO gel earlier all I found were beuty products......So I (maybe erroneously!) assumed this may not have been the right product.....!So before I say more, anyonelike to enlighten me...? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich newby Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I'm guessing it stands for isopropyl gel, which is generally used for cleaning. :) Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Unless the ambient light level is very low, I really don't think LEDs will cut it. Five minutes' thought about this has created a mental picture of car headlamp bulbs for the light source; motor-driven, coarsely / irregularly-slotted wheels to create the flicker and appropriately flame-coloured gels. PS - Isn't Iso-gel that stuff that you buy in tins from camping shops? Just pop the lid off, set fire to it and use it to keep food warm... or something? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leecey Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I imagine the stuff he is talking about is similar/identical to this. The link is for a firegel burner, but they mention the gel as well. http://www.gelburners.co.uk/questions.asp What is Firegel? Firegel is a mixture of clean burning alcohols - Ethanol and Propanol. Gelling agents and flame brighteners are added to the alcohol mixture to thicken the alcohol and make the flame burn with a brighter yellow flame. Will the burner set off my smoke alarm if used indoors? The gel that we supply burns with no smoke or odour. Therefore, using your gelburner indoors will not set off your smoke alarm. Sounds fun :) As long as there's an extinguisher nearby and no flammable materials around your drum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich newby Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 So it would appear to be meths, except a bit cleaner. Why did you choose this out of interest? Surely a gas flame would be better as it can be turned off if something goes wrong, its a bit more controllable than an open fire. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.