beanie Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I work in a university. Tech wise we only do one tech module, but next year there is a student in a wheelchair that is going to take the course. The two theatre spaces are pretty new builds, with fixed grids, and ladders or stairs to the tech boxes... They're in discussion now about making this work - currently looking at putting wifi in so the lx desk can be run downstairs in the auditorium, and getting a portable sound desk... but the rest of the practicalities eg rigging, focusing etc are never going to be ideal.Also work in a venue thats supposed to be getting refurbed... we already have a portable ramp to get access into the auditorium as there are steps either side from the foyer, but they were looking at speccing a small lift that was built into the side of the stage so we could have performers in wheelchairs, and also making a dressing room with disabled access... Tech wise, we can fly bars in to rigging height and if they put the lift in then access to the stage is sorted, our control position is FOH although next to seating so access is limited... It is possible to remove some seats in a different area and putting control in there...althought they are already designated wheelchair spaces...so theoritically would there be a choice at some point along the line of wheelchair spaces for techs or for audience members?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Allthough as bluntly as paul put it, I'd have to agree with him. Some people just can't do things. thats a fact they have to come to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 P.S. Mac Calder, what do you mean by ‘bio-box’? I’ve been working in technical theatre for 12years and never heard this word! It is a predominantly Australian term for the 'booth'. Short for Biograph Box. That said - in designing a theatre, personally, I would not go out of my way to provide disabled access to areas like the bio box. As a general rule, ramps etc take up a lot of space compared to the spiral stair cases (or tight stair wells) that are generally found in theatres. That said, if I could easily fit it in and it was a design goal, I would do so. Audience accessibility, and performer accessibility are all well and good, and the money does need to be spent there, but tech areas? No way. As I mentioned in my previous post, if you have a technician with some form of disability, you can often make a few compensations and work out a few work-arrounds where need be... making sure they are safe of course (ie I would not recomend lifting someone up the stair well into the booth using a geni lift because in an emergancy, it would be extreamly dangerous). Brining a building up to code for disabled access is a very expensive process. Something as basic as a stair lift can easily cost in excess of AU$30k. My school was going to have to make everything accessible as we were gaining a disabled student - most of it would not be a problem as most of the school had been designed that way, but the few aspects (getting rid of the small lowered sections between wings, adding an extra ramp etc) would have cost in excess of a hundred thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Sorry I was blunt - but this case in the uni is exactly what I mean - a theatre space is a work space. The module will now be delivered in a different form. The work typical bits like getting to the work areas have been sanitised, remote control of the desk from the stalls is ok, I guess, from the proramming side -maybe opping too. What about experience of working behind glass, isolation from the audience, working from show relay through a tinny tiny speaker? Gone - because of one person. Sound from a (being honest) sub-standard desk, just to get is accessable? Now I have to say I'm not against making thses changes for the disabled person, and if they want to train for three/four years in an area where work is already short, then that is up to them. What I object to is the fact that everybody else will suffer. The lecturer cannot any longer suddenly grab the group and troop up to the flyrail to do some repatching, or similar stuff,because ONE person can't take part - and that means they can't say they are 'incusive'. My old college, where I used the wheelchair girl example, had to re-fit their media department when this person swaped to a media course - all the edit suites were at comfy chair height, not wheelchair height - so all had work surfaces ripped out and raised. Net result - one user happy - over 20 forced to work in discomfort - try typing with the keyboard at about chest height? Solution, dump office style chairs, install stools! When she left - the college said they had to stay in case another student in a wheelchair signed up! I really think that certain kinds of job can't be done by certain kind sof people. Nobody would serously consider that you should scrap dancer auditions because it discriminates against those who can't dance? No problem with disabled dancers in a disabled production at all - even done a few. I read the other day that people who are seriously obese are now technically disabled - so if somebody really overweight can't climb the hooped ladder to the flys - we have to get a bigger one? or could they even complain they were discriminated against when they went for a dance audition and didn't get picked! I've had people with real serious disabilities work for me - they did their jobs fine because they were the 'type' o person who knew their limits and could work with them. The one thing they did not want was special treatment. Somebody with an tin leg CAN climb up to the flys, in safety, with no mods to the ladder. What really gets me are those people who expect the flys to be brought down to them! This has turned into a bit of a rant - but if I've offended anybody by what I've said, I apologise now. (I DO mean it, though) P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 our venue: Unicorn Theatre in London.all areas a member of the audience needs to get to are accessible to wheelchair users. we cpould make space for perhaps 20 wheelchairs for a performance in the large theatre and 8 in the smaller, but numbers allowed are limited by the staircase refuges for the large space. the small theatre is on ground level, so no restrictions other than space available, depends on style of performance.most technical areas are also accessible,with the exception of the loading gallery and gantries in the larger theatre. The rack room and dimmer room would be difficult as the plinth that the racks sit on means the door doesn't fully open. but as someone else pointed out, dimmer racks and amp racks are currently designed vertically, and are therefore not easy to use from a wheelchair. perhaps someone should think about horizontal racks? in the smaller theatre, the grid is fixed and therefore only reachable by tower, ladder etc. the control position here is on a tower with a ladder, but we could provide for an operator in a wheelchair by taking the equipment off the tower and siting it at stage level. as well as phyical access to the premises, it is also important to make sure that what goes on on the stage can also be enjoyed by all members of our communities, whether its by ensuring that wheelchair users can get in a see the show from good positions, or by providing audio described, bsl signed, captioned etc performances. currently it seems to me that the cost of doing this is the main barrier to access. if for example providing an audio described show can cost the equivalent of 10% or more of the production budget to provide descriptions at a couple of performances (at least that's how the ratios work here at the moment - we don't have terribly big budgets), then we need to be very sure we're providing value for money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thcousins Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 Well, it seem this topic has changed direction somewhat. Which in some ways is a good thing. I have an understanding for both sides of the argument. And of course have my own opinion/s. Yes there are cost implications, but as anyone who has worked on a refit (or indeed any show) knows - it is good practice to work out the dream solution, then cut back where possible until it meets bugetary requirments - or raise the budget! :blink: All I'm trying to do is ensure that the ideal really is the ideal! - and for that I need experience, data and a little luck! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 My old college, where I used the wheelchair girl example, had to re-fit their media department when this person swaped to a media course - all the edit suites were at comfy chair height, not wheelchair height - so all had work surfaces ripped out and raised. Net result - one user happy - over 20 forced to work in discomfort - try typing with the keyboard at about chest height? Solution, dump office style chairs, install stools! When she left - the college said they had to stay in case another student in a wheelchair signed up! Hmm. From what you discribe those edit suites would immediatly fail a DSE inspection where I work. All of our edit suites are on motorised desks with the monitors independantly movable of the desk, and in some suites the desks are movable as well. Custom consoles do a great range of height ajustable desks with front and back section independantly height ajustable. Anyone sitting down to edit for any prolonged period of time should be able to ajust height, rake and back of their chair, ajust the height of the desk the keyboard, mouse and tablet is on and ajust the height depth and angle of the main monitors to the most comfortable postitions. If those edit suites have been moved to an uncomfortable position then one would be within ones rights to refuse to use them unless they are modified. Sorry James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grum Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 King's Lynn Corn Exchange: all ground floor levels fully accessible (including stage) all other levels are wheelchair accessible via a lift except the grid and catwalks. However all areas are accessible to the disabled technician who works there (me) who is missing his left leg above the knee. When designing your accessible areas remember to take into account evacuation procedures, if you've got a wheelchair bound rigger in the grid and the fire alarm goes off how are you going to get them down (bearing in mind that you can't use the lift)? The thing to remember is that not all disabled people are stuck in wheelchairs and not all people with the same disability have the same problems, like Paul says its as much down to personal attitude as anything else. PAUL: My leg is made from carbon fibre and titanium not TIN !!!! (and thanks for the job last year by the way. Without the chance you gave me I'd probably still be unemployed / doing a "real" job). If you want any more info feel free to PM me. Grum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUSTie Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 there are limitations to us all some more obvious than others but we all have stuff we can not do. we had a disabled cameraman who we worked with last year, they were in a wheelchair it posed some interesting problems but they coped, there were some small adaptations that had to be made, like remote gear on the tripod at a comfy hight but there was no problem relay. access is not something that is always good in theatres and venues but if it can be done it should. an awareness of our own limitations and everyone Else's is good but if they can do it then why not. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benweblight Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Theatre By The Lake has access to gantrys, not sure about the rest of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Palace Theare Redditch - Re-opened Sat 22 April 2006 Office, sound and lighting positions have level access from 2nd floor foyer (served by lift rated for fire evacuation). Level access between stage door, crew room, wet room, ground floor dressing room corridor, stage, ground floor foyer and stalls Disabled toilets in all levels FOH, disabled toilet/shower room backstage. Fly-floor now accessible via steps (previously only ladder). Grid ladder only. Dimmer room is level access but very small and probably not good for weelchair manoverability. Followspot positions on raised platforms for height - not suitable for weelchair - bound operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 ADC Theatre, Cambridge:Ongoing refurbishment, with new lift to auditorium and directly into control boxes, no current wheelchair access to stage but should happen, no current disabled access to fly gallery and probably won't happen (would involve rebuilding most of fly tower etc.). Remember also that the DDA applies to more than just wheelchair users, eg. deaf/blind/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 P.S. Mac Calder, what do you mean by ‘bio-box’? I’ve been working in technical theatre for 12years and never heard this word! It is a predominantly Australian term for the 'booth'. Short for Biograph Box. It comes from cinemas in which the projector room was called the biograph box being converted to theatres and the name sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy247 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hi Tom, I would be really interested to read your report when it is finished. We are currently in the process of making adaptations to two of our venues one being Grade II listed. In this case I have found the guys at ARC (Aluminium Ramp Company) to be really helpful. Popular to common belief these guys aren't just a bunch of panel beaters and were very knowledgeable on all aspects of part M of Building Regulations. I also found the Equality Commission to be useful however there information was less practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekij Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 It is my understanding that legally it is recognised that certain jobs require a certain level of physical capability and that it is not discrimination to turn down someone who is unable to fulfil that physical capability. Stacking supermarket shelves requires the ability to lift boxes above head height and is therefore unsuitable for someone in a wheelchair, someone with only one arm (who has declined or is unable to use a synthetic one to a level where they could perform this job) or for an 100lb person who lacks the physical strength to lift a 30lb box above their head. I have been (temporarily) disabled and been very frustrated by things that had been done with no thought to disabled access (such as a single step along a corridor that was placed such that a ramp would foul the opening of a door). Things that can be easily fixed (or easily designed out at the start) should be done. But it is not practical or reasonable to spend thousands to allow access for a tiny minority of people. I sail, our local club has 'sailability' a process whereby wheelchair and other disabled users can sail, some of them make great sailors but there are some jobs (foredeck and working up the mast) that they just can't do. It should comes down to what can be reasonably done to maximise the access and use for disabled users, but once you start to reduce the effectiveness of the show (stop rigging lanterns from areas where you can't get wheelchair access) in my opinion you have gone too far. I'm all for helping out minorities but not when doing so is a significant detriment to the majority! Lets say there are two techs on the job, one doesn't like working at height and the other can't (through disability). Is it fair to force the one tech who can; to do all the working at height just because the other can't? Or would it be fairer to make "working at height" a job requirement and share it equally (the person who dislikes it can decline the job or suffer their fair share (or if the others are OK with it concentrate mainly on ground work when possible))? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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