Deadly Wonky Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hey guys, I'm studying sound enginering at UCE and my assignment at the moment is to plan and describe a festival, to this end I need to find a good line array system for a main stage (massive audience, flat field, big stage) and I was wondering if anyone had operational experience with any major line arrays or knew if any reviews of them were published anywhere. I'd greatly appreciate any help you guys can offer Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'd normally say, "go and read a text book", but it's sunny today and the holidays are nearly here.... Reviews tend to be a difficult animal.... Try Googling for "Line Array Shoot Out", and you'll find mainly manufacturer's articles saying how their brilliant product won a shoot out. There isn't much which is objective and scientifically (double blind) tested. Purchasers will want good sound quality, but will also want to cross rent, rig the boxes quickly and easily, have low mass components, fit a standard truck width and be offered in an attractive financial package. I'd expect someone who talks about their box (and has invested £££ in it) will give a fairly good report! That's not to say everything is fine in line array land... Some rigging systems are harder than others, some early boxes were impossibly heavy and a recent demo tour soon showed that one brand's rigging hardware couldn't take standard size bow shackles. If your assignment is asking you to select a suitable system for the festival, why not try the online / demo modelling programmes (EASE, Ulysses etc.). You could then compare prediction with the aim and shoot programmes that the manufacturers provide. Your report would then show that Brand A could cover the audience area, show the required trim height, degree of curvature, box deployment, use of frequency shading and give the predicted SPL.... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dave Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Just to throw another thought in - why so you automaically have to spec line array? I worked on one festival last year where we still flew a point source array and it sounded awesome. LA is not always the answer. As to which LA to use, that would mainly come down to personal preference. While I like the sound of VDosc, W8L and Xline, I'm not a great fan of Geo T or Vertec....but thats just me. With correct system design, you will be able to achieve good results from most systems. You'll also be supprised with what you can achieve with the smaller/mid size LA systems. I would suggest that you first define your arena size/capacity and stage size. You also need to take into account your location and whether noise pollution is going to be a factor. From that , you can start to think about designing a system that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I work on quite alot of out door festivals and the most common system right now is Nexo's Tangent line array, as u are doin a paper this might not be a bad choice because you can download the design software for free, that will give you good arguments for choice as it will give you SPL at any given distance and 3D dispersion map which make for good graphics....Unless you are actually going to physically rig the system theres no point gettin to caught up in people's personal choice, I've endorsed nexo's system on there site but it is not always my first choice but for the application your lookin at it will deffinately do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Simon and Dave have given you some good points, at the end of the day it comes down to who has the contract for a certain job. If it's SSE in the UK until this year it was gonna be GeoT or VerTec, now it could also be V-DOSC. Adlib Contract? That'll be a VerTec rig, Brit Row? Might be XLine, or V-DOSC and so it goes on. Bottom line is that all of these systems cost six figure amounts to make a working system just in boxes and rigging. I haven't heard an EV XLine that impressed me but I've heard good and bad results from all the other big ones. It's much more about the engineer than the tool. For the purpose of your report I'd pick a Line Array that has an online modelling tool, try GeoSoft from Nexo or Array Calc from D&B. EAW also have a fairly good calculator for the KF7xx series. As Dave says though a line array may not be the answer, you might need more width, in which case my favourite large trap box is Turbosound Aspect, though Nexo Alpha is good too. There's not a huge range of Trap boxes out in the large end now, and those that are there are holding their own well, that says something about the quality of them. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_Rock Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 For small events probably Nexo's Geo S ( wich to me it's the best line array from Nexo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furryface Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Again I'd have to ask why the automatic "line Array" comment. There are other alternatives out there to using line arrays. For example line arrays are far more susceptible to atmospheric interference than point source systems. So if you have a bright sunny day with a stiff breeze you're going to have a lot more issues with noise pollution off site than either a) if it is cold and cloudy or b) you use a point source system. To give you a real world example Glastonbury has had increasing noise pollution issues in the years since they moved from using Turbosound Flashlight (point source) to L'Acoustics then to Nexo (Line arrays). Last year it was wet and cloudy on Friday & Saturday (as anyone working there can tell you) but clear sunny, with a breeze on the Sunday. Due to this change in the weather the Other Stage (V'Dosc) ended up with a peak SPL limit of just 94dB at the Mix position. Which is quiet when you've got Groove Armarda or whoever replace Ian Brown. As Chris Hinds mentions you shouldn't ignore Turbosound's Aspect system which got used at a few outdoor events last year including the Loaded weekender on Clapham Common with brit Row, where they have always had real, real issues with noise as there is a hospice at one end of the common. Noise pollution is an integral part of the licensing for festivals nowadays. The ideal situation is to be able to get sufficient levels at the FoH position but not to spill off site. Line arrays are not always the best solution to deal with that particular issue. Have a look at Turbo's website, I think you can download their predictive software for free from there. Just thought I'd mention it as I've had experience with both noise police and licensing issues both with Line Arrays and Point sources - form that angle I know what has made my life easier. Anyway best of luck with your Assignment Furry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 >>>I'd have to ask why the automatic "line Array" comment I had assumed that the OP had to use line arrays in his assignment.... The point about noise pollution is a very real one, and many local authorities believe that line arrays will help the issue. This is probably true when compared to the arrays used in the 80s and 90s! However, the use of cardioid sub arrays and controlled directivity usually helps keep sound away from noise sensitive dwellings. I would be interested to know what correlation exists between manufacturers prediction software and third party systems - hopefully both are accurate ;-) regards, Simon (a part time member of the Noise Police!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTheSoundMan Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Hi Tom, Simon here. We have to plan multiple venues for the assignment, so one with at least a line array would be good. We can aso have infinite money too. :) I have been trying to get in contact with SSE and get some advice, but also asking for rider and spec lists for events such as Glatonbury, Vfestival, Download etc to see what they use. They have seemed to have gone away on holiday at the mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Most riders specify a "Full range 3 or 4 way system capable of providing 110dB at front of house. Suitable manufacutrers are either Meyer, DB, EAW, L'Acostic. Defiantely no Peavey" in a kind of it needs to be loud and reputable. Cardiod certainly helps matters. Several of the Music festivals held at Cheltenham Racecourse utilise these tricks, along with point source systems flown high but aimed down into the crowd. These tricks help to minimise the noise that spills off nearby villages, and the houses on the other side of the track. It really is quite something to walk around the side of a cardiod sub array and feel/hear the bass disappear. It might be worth speaking to the likes of Capita Symonds and Cane Green about the sound issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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