"Fog" for Nevilles Island

[Guest mattladkinlx]

Hi there,

 

I am lighting Neville's Island in about 2 weeks time need ideas on how to create the fog effect (I am no expert in fog effects so any help gratefully recieved!)

 

I have got 2 VERY CHEAP smoke machines with timer interfaces (the standard FOG (with amount knob), timer and duration) but have found that they only output smoke in clouds.

 

I need an innexpensive solution to convert the clouds into a mist / fog.

 

Any ideas (perhaps ducting pipes with small holes in for the smoke to escape?!)Thanks in advance,

 

Matt Ladkin

Lighting Designer

[wycome5]

When I only have a smoke machine and need a hazy effect, I try and place something infront of the machine (a display board is ideal) as it disperses the fog before going on the stage.

[Jivemaster]

Cheap hazers are a smoker with a big fan to diffuse the smoke, can you use a small fan to just soften the blast of smoke to be the drifting fog.

[Ynot]

Hi there,

 

I am lighting Neville's Island in about 2 weeks time need ideas on how to create the fog effect

Been a while since I saw Neville's island, so can you clarify what sort of effect you're after?

 

If you want haze, then cheap foggers are probably not going to be reliable enough - hire a decent quality hazer.

 

If you want fog on the water, use dry ice from a decent machine like a pea souper. However, take care - IIRC, the play has a couple of the actors 'swimming' through the shallows - if done with care the dry ice shouldn't be a problem, and would likely look better, but just treat it with caution.

 

DT

[DC FX]

If you want fog on the water, use dry ice from a decent machine like a pea souper. However, take care - IIRC, the play has a couple of the actors 'swimming' through the shallows - if done with care the dry ice shouldn't be a problem, and would likely look better, but just treat it with caution.

 

Be very careful using Dry Ice where people are breathing the effect is of course CO2 and prolonged exposure can result in Axphyxiation - not good near water, as Ynot says treat it with caution

[mac.calder]

Be very careful using Dry Ice where people are breathing the effect is of course CO2 and prolonged exposure can result in Axphyxiation

 

It is not "prolonged exposure" so much as "high concentrations of" - so you REALLY need to be in a large space, or have a decently ventilated venue. Basically, high concentrations of CO2 can cause you to 'drown' (Yes, you can drown in gasses) because you do not receive enough O2.

[zonino]

high concentrations of CO2 can cause you to 'drown' (Yes, you can drown in gasses) because you do not receive enough O2.

 

<pedant>

 

drowned, drown·ing, drowns

v. tr.

 

1. To kill by submerging and suffocating in water or another liquid.

2. To drench thoroughly or cover with or as if with a liquid.

3. To deaden one's awareness of; blot out: people who drowned their troubles in drink.

4. To muffle or mask (a sound) by a louder sound: screams that were drowned out by the passing train.

 

suffocate

1. To kill or destroy by preventing access of air or oxygen.

2. To impair the respiration of; asphyxiate.

3. To cause discomfort to by or as if by cutting off the supply of fresh air.

4. To suppress the development, imagination, or creativity of; stifle: “The rigid formality of the place suffocated her†(Thackeray).

 

courtesy of dictionary.com

 

so, whilst its possible to suffocate in water (drowning) its not possible to drown in gases, unless they're in liquid form. in which case they aren't gases!!!

 

</pedant>

[DC FX]

Beat me to it!!!

[mac.calder]

looking in my dictionary, it says 'fluid' not 'liquid', and fluid can either be liquid or gas, but it really does not matter - when you drown, your cause of death is "asphyxiation"

 

Drowning is death due to asphyxia caused by immersion in fluid, usually water

 

The 'pedant' over the definition of drowning is irrelevant - my main point is that "prolonged exposure" to CO2 will not harm you, however too much in an enclosed space is the issue. It is not like smoking where it is exposure that leads to cancer, or something like radiation sources where time exposed matters, it is a volume issue

[zonino]

yes, its just the chemist/diver in me! thats why I put it in pedant marks

[DC FX]

The dangers are the same, the rest is a matter of definition - my main point is that "prolonged exposure" to CO2 will not harm you, however too much in an enclosed space is the issue

 

Let me explain a job I did on Mortal Kombat II (when you were still at school) we had 4 Londoner Dry Ice machines giving out a reasonable amount of Low level fog enough to partially cover a stage floor about 400SqFt we had a scene whereby there as a fight and one of the actors fell over and then there was a CG shot of her falling through this Fog. Se was in the CO2 for approximately 2-3minutes at a time until we had to stop because she was feeling dizzy and Nauseous.

 

This was due to PROLONGED EXPOSURE TO SMALL AMOUNTS OF CO2, she was not however confined to a area filled with Fog - bearing in mind the size of the stage

 

My concern on this thread was being that these people could be swimming with there heads above the water where the Fog would be, they would not be able to get out of this EXPOSURE to CO2, meaning that after they became dizzy and Nauseous, they could pass out - not a very good idea in water

 

Regards

[Guest mattladkinlx]

Oh dear I didnt want to start a chemical definition thread!

 

Basically the venue is fairly small and we have little budget for the production as the proceeds are going to charity (and it would be nice to have as much proceeds left as possible!) No dry ice or hazer available (so no chance of killing people!) also water is being placed in one of the wings so is only partially visible!

 

I have to work with what I have which are 2 small foggers! The effect is a foggy day with the fog sweeping in from SR (the rivers shore).

 

There is only a small space between fogger and the audience sightline edge and so havent got the room for a fan system or "wafting board".

 

My only concern is that the stage will be filled with a heavy smoke rather than light fog and so I need to disperce it.

 

Would placing a ducting system (I.e a flexible pipe with small holes in, taped up at the end) achieve the foggy effect I am looking for?

 

Matt

[DC FX]

Would placing a ducting system (I.e a flexible pipe with small holes in, taped up at the end) achieve the foggy effect I am looking for?

 

Matt,

 

This is exactly the system we use in Films for covering large areas with smoke, the idea being that you use a Squirrel fan (centrifugal fan) with layflat (circular tubing) over the area you want to cover, turn the fan on and then add the smoke into the side of the fan. You then cut small holes or slots (usually facing downwards - so not too saucy) into the layflat, which seeps out and creates the effect.

 

HTH

 

Some people have also been know to throw ice/Dry Ice down the layflat to cool the smooke as it passes through the tubing

[zonino]

sorry matt! just be careful if you use CO2 in the future ;)

 

feeding it into a Y junction and seperating it into two feeds from the one machine will distribute it out more, but it might not drift out of the wings much,

 

a fan is probably the best way to do it, remember the fan doesnt have to be in front of the fogger!

 

also if you had another fan on SL taking air from the stage I imagine this would help disperse the smoke from the SL to keep the seperation of sea and shore

[Whiteout]

If you're using a curtain which is closed before the performance, you could consider getting to the venue reasonably early and gently "fogging out" the stage. This would allow time for the smoke to disperse into a hazy effect. To speed this up, how about simply wafting (and therefore dispersing) the smoke around the stage pre-performance?

 

Just some thoughts...