Smoking beaker.

[Wheeler84]

Hi the new girl here, with a question.

 

In June my amateur theatre group is putting on Inspector Drake and the Perfekt crime which has some complicated props (especially for a small company) in one scene the actor playing Sergeant Plod is required to put his hand in a beaker which appears to contain acid, this is suppsoed to bubble as if burning him. Does anyone know how this can be achieved safetly? My first though is dry ice mixed in warm water but I wonder if that would be too cold to put your hand in for any length of time.

At the moment I am considering a large beaker of hot/warm water and a smaller clear container inside (secured so it doesn't touch) which has holes and contains the dry ice (since the scene is halfway through an act we can not easily bring the ice on) my idea was that the actor could push the false beaker down making it look like he is putting his hand in and setting off the dry ice to make it bubble like acid without actually wetting his hand. Would this work???

 

Any advice or suggestions gratefully recieved.

 

Helen

[mac.calder]

Well you can use a mini fogger if you are worried about temperature.

 

There is also a lot to be said for suspension of disbelief. For example, can you obscure the beaker so that they cannot see the contents? Your second method would work to some extent too. Or you could get some lightweight thermal gloves.

 

Maybe you could try bubbling fog through the liquid, that may be an interesting effect.

[Bryson]

How about using a beaker full of (freshly-poured) lemonade (added green food colouring if required) and a handful of sherbert (or even a couple of refreshers) dropped in it when he puts his hand in? He could hide the refreshers in his sleeve or similar. Add a mini fogger for the smoke part.

 

The best part is that there's no risk at all!

[back_ache]

How about using one of those submerged piezo electric fogger things you see in small novelty gothic water features?

[bruce]

A similar theme to Bryson's - how about something mildly acidic - I'm thinking about water with some vinegar or lemon juice in it - and dropping some bicarbonate of soda in....

 

Or even just dumping some Jaap's health salts - which is basically tartaric acid, bicarbonate of soda and sugar - into some water. Gives a nice fizz.... which can be enhanced by using sparking mineral water....

[dbuckley]

How about using one of those submerged piezo electric fogger things you see in small novelty gothic water features?

No, they hurt if you get too close <_<

[Loz]

I can answer your smoke point - I think - if you have a lid on the container for the duration before the actor puts his hand in, then you can fill the container with smoke from an ordinary fogger, then when opened it rises out of it - like the gothic films....

This may help you or may not but its my twopence.....

[andy_s]

we had a smoking beaker for a show for which we used a small smoke generator designed to fit into model steam locomotives - this can be battery operated by the user, doesn't produce huge volumes of smoke, but not too bad. Only drawback is it has to be kept straight and level, or the fluid pours out and the effect don't work. We bought it from a modelshop near regents park, but I presume most model railway shops would have something.

[Guest lightnix]

Hi there Wheeler84, welcome to the Blue Room :)

 

The double beaker idea you describe could work, although the outer beaker might need to be opaque. You could probably suspend the inner beaker on rubber bands. My only worry is that, as described there is a small risk that the actor's bare fingers may come into contact with the dry ice; if you can find a way around that...

 

If the beaker has to be clear, then the bicarb idea would be top of my list, especially into something like clear vinegar (coloured green if it will take it) to give a really good fizz.

 

Something else that just sprung to mind is Universal Indicator - that green stuff you use in Chemistry to test the pH of substances. I remember it would turn reddish on contact with the skin, a bit like watery blood and am wondering if you could use this to achieve the effect. If the actor frosted part of his fingers with some salt, that would definitely effect a colour change. Maybe a small amount of stage blood could be dripped onto the hand to enhance the effect of flesh being eaten away by acid.

 

For the definitive version of this effect IMO, see the final horror sequence of http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0009YVCX6.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg with Jeff Goldblum.

 

FWIW, mini foggers are available from Maplin, just type fogger into the search box on the top right. I've used them myself and based on that, am not sure they would be appropriate on this occasion. To start with they need a 12V supply, they need to be covered with a certain level of fluid in order to function, but go very far above that level and the effect is lost. They also tend to splash, so it can be desirable to fix some kind of "catcher plate" over the top of them. Apart from that, I thing they're great :(

[pritch]

How about using one of those submerged piezo electric fogger things

No, they hurt if you get too close :)

 

Yeah, you're not wrong. Just managed to hurt my finger by holding it in the jet from one that I bought out of casual interest just now.

 

There was probably something in the manual about that, mind.

 

Edit: Yup, there it is. Tells you not to do it because "this can be quite painful". Should have read the manual first, shouldn't I? In my defence, I'm at home right now, so I'm allowed to put safety and common sense aside.

[dbuckley]

Yeah, you're not wrong

I'm normally (given I'm a wimp) quite safety concious, and not a big fan of receiving pain, so I look back and wonder what part of me didnt get that if this little thing could disrupt water enough to make it fog, why it wouldnt disrupt me...

[Wheeler84]

Thanks for all the suggestions, you've all been really helpful. Don't know which method I will use yet, it depends what the director has in mind for the effect, I especially like the refresher and bicarb ideas. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.

[ojc123]

You could probably suspend the inner beaker on rubber bands.

Rubber bands would go solid and brittle.

Something else that just sprung to mind is Universal Indicator - that green stuff you use in Chemistry to test the pH of substances.

Be careful, the solvent is ethanol (alcohol) and Universal indicator is very flammable.

If the actor frosted part of his fingers with some salt, that would definitely effect a colour change.

Salt would not, in itself, produce a reddish colour with UI. Salt (Sodium Chloride) is pH7 (neutral) and would make it green.

 

I tried a crushed bath bomb thing with warm water. The resulting solution is alkaline so colour's difficult. Phenolphthalein is the obvious choice because it goes pink in alkali. Like most indicators it's toxic, carcinogenic and flammable.

 

I guess that a hand in acid wouldn't bubble but might fume because of the heat released and dehydration reactions.

(Removes Chemistry teacher hat)

I would probably consider a one of these foggers arranged so Sgt Plod puts his had in a container (with fake blood?) which is inside the container with the fogger thereby reducing the scald problem. I haven't thought this through yet so here's a rough sketch. Might not work but there you go.

[Wheeler84]

Thanks for the diagram, I can see what you mean about the indicator solution, I did a little research into its safety after remembering all the precautions I took in school with the stuff, so although its a nice effect I would not be happy exposing someone to it.

The one that interested me was a 'natural' indicator made using an ex-lax tablet which contains Phenolphthalein, this is apparently clear with pH up to 8.3 and then turns red at pH 9, I had sort of concluded that 1 tablet mixed in pure water would just look like a clear acid and then if the actor puts his hand in with some bicarb it should fizz (or maybe the solution would need some lemon juice) and go pink. My only concern with this is that there is some argument over the safety of this because it has been linked to cancer, even though I would be using a tiny amount it seems a risk.

The latest plan - taking into account the many helpful suggestions and doing a little research is making a solution of water and lemon juice and releasing a small amount of bicarb and a blood capsule as the hand enters, I don't know whether you can get soluble blood capsules, most seem to be activated by biting but it seems a reasonably safe idea, unless bicarbonate of soda has any precautions for use.

A fogger does sound like an interesting gadget however I am wondering how it would be powered within the beaker, I will be sure to read the information about them.

I will discuss all the options with the director next week when rehearsals for this performance start, hopefully something can be worked out. I will be sure to let you all know the outcome.

As I said this is one of seemingly quite a few props so I may be asking questions in other 'sections' I think I need to find a fake head that I can chop up as well, its certainly an experience helping with this play.

Please keep any suggestions coming.

[Sim]

To keep the acid effect, why not a fish tank air pump (might need sometime more powerful) to pump air bubbles up the beaker. when it hits the hand it will got around it. Add that with blood capsules it should look rather effective.