strand 300 dmx outs

[dave_m]

Help

I've got a strand 300 series with two problems

 

1. DMX 1 died in the middle of a show (I didn't realise because it died in a blackout)

2. It says it's an illegal console

 

Anyone got any ideas, because it's a fairly new console. Also, it's meant 2 be 25 channel console, according to the sticker in the manual, but it only registers with 50 on lightpalette/GP

 

Ta

[dave singleton]

Contact Strand.

 

Do you no the origins of the console (i.e. where it was purchased from)?

 

I would contact strand regardless. You should have a strand rep's number after purchasing the console.

[dave_m]

we bought it from a supplier near the thestre, but it's well past warranty, and I never seem to be able to get hold of strand.

There have been times when I've tried to get hold of them in school, but that sjust got my phone taken of me.

 

just remembered about the dimmers.We've got three old strand installation dimmers, 20 chans per dimmer, that seem to need ribbon cable to be connected to the demux. How much do you think it would cost to upgrade, because fuses are getting hard to find.

[Bryson]

Dave. Please read this. Especially the part about giving us lots of details. Then try again.

[dave_m]

Dave. Please read this. Especially the part about giving us lots of details. Then try again.

 

ok,dimmers are strand electric stm's 20 chans per dimmer and they run on a three phase supply, and only 48 channels work. The entire rig was installed by amateurs about 30 years ago. I've been told that the dimmers run at 20 Kw each. Our control room is situated about 20-25 metres away, and houses the dodgy strand desk and the demux 48. Somehow the demux gets 3 2/6 outputs into the dimmers via three parallel printer sockets in the dimmer room. These sockets then connect up to the dimmers via 3 lengths of ribbon cable. Should we upgrade the dimmers. Also, we have had lights flickering on and off with no signal being sent from eiher the desk or the demux.

 

That enough detail 4 u?

[AndrewE]

We have a very similar setup in our theatre and recently encountered a problem with one of our dimmer racks. I decided to remove the "dodgy old Strand desk" that we had installed - it's probably the same as yours and called a Duet. I discovered that when I got rid of the old Strand desk, one of our dimmer racks no longer worked. Even though the dimmers are controlled by DMX via an ARRI demux, it seemed that the old ribbon cables you describe have to be connected, in order for some of the channels to work. It might be worth checking whether all the ribbon cables are correctly and firmly connected - that might explain why some of your dimmers don't work.

 

Flickering channels are usually due to a faulty triac in the dimmer. I also have this problem with 5 channels on one of my dimmers. We have just decided not to use them in the meantime, until we can get the dimmers serviced.

 

I would say your best bet would be to have your dimmers checked over by a qualified electrician, who might be able to fix the flickering channels and the unresponsive channels all in one go. How long ago were they last serviced?

 

Good luck :wacko:

[Nick S]

First off, you don't have twenty channels per dimmer - what you call a "dimmer" is actually a box that contains a large number of dimmers (in this case, 20). Each dimmer therefore runs at 1kw.

 

I don't understand if it's a fairly new console how it can be well past warranty. It sounds like you're a student at your school - I suggest you consult with someone with the authority to send the board off for repair if needed (and that's a big if). You're only going to be able to contact Strand directly during business hours. I suggest you, or someone else, contacts first the supplier you bought the desk from, and then Strand themselves. You don't know whether it's the board that's broken (although obviously the licence issue needs resolving) - you should test everything. I also find it hard to believe that a three phase dimming system was installed by "amateurs", and given that's what you are yourself, you probably shouldn't be so derisive about it...

 

How much do you think it would cost to upgrade, because fuses are getting hard to find.

How often do you blow fuses? Because if you're getting through them, I'd say that's the problem. The fuses shouldn't be hard to find, they're fairly standard despite the age of the equipment.

 

You can request the manual for the STM to download from here, that might be helpful.

[dave_m]

errrm, I don't know when they were last serviced. we just lost all of the original technicians, but while I was there with them I found out they didn't believe in H+S stuff, (moving asbestos cables, insulation tape joints, no pat tests), so it's anyones guess if they were even installed by a competent sparky. My bad saying "Dodgy old strand desk" I meant the 300 series, but we used to have a GSX 48chan which I liked a lot, and was opposed to replacing. Damn good training desk.

I've just been looking at some of the local H+S regs in our area, and to avoid being told off severely (the dimmers have holes in them) I'm thinking of upgrading. What do you think I should replace them with? and why isn't the 300 series showing 125 channels?

 

Ta

Dave

[Ynot]

ok,dimmers are strand electric stm's 20 chans per dimmer and they run on a three phase supply, and only 48 channels work. The entire rig was installed by amateurs about 30 years ago. I've been told that the dimmers run at 20 Kw each. Our control room is situated about 20-25 metres away, and houses the dodgy strand desk and the demux 48. Somehow the demux gets 3 2/6 outputs into the dimmers via three parallel printer sockets in the dimmer room. These sockets then connect up to the dimmers via 3 lengths of ribbon cable. Should we upgrade the dimmers. Also, we have had lights flickering on and off with no signal being sent from eiher the desk or the demux.

Right, first things first - the dimmers.

Whilst the old STM dimmer racks are indeed old, there are pretty much bullet proof - two things however are common faults with them. Either the thyristors blow (due to age, or sometimes a full short across the outputs) or the capacitors blow. Either case shouldn't be too much of a problem for a QUALIFIED SPARKY to resolve (preferably one with some exp on theatre dimmers, though!) .

 

I am a little bemused with the arrangement you describe for delivering the analogue feed to the racks. If I read right, your demux is by the control desk, which feeds printer cables (odd in itself!) to printer sockets by the racks which feed ribbon cables that terminate on the screw terminals inside the racks..... This is something I would DEFINITELY have changed with fair urgency!

Move the demux to a suitable location BY the racks and connect the analogue outputs from the 8 output sockets on that demux directly to the rack's analogue terminals - use some decent cable - stranded, preferably, though quality isn't a huge issue, as it's only got to carry 10v each leg. I assume that you already have the necessary plugs as this must be how the control lines getto the printer cables, yes?

All you need then is a single run of twin screened DMX cable (the quality of which IS important) to connect the desk to the demux. And voila, you have an infinitely better setup for the control path. :huh:

I'm a little concernedabout "The dimmers have holes in them..." Exactly what do you mean?

 

Upgrading the dimmers? The choices are wide, and depends entirely on budget!

ETC Smart Packs/Racks - 6 or 12-channel packs, rack or wall-mounting.

Zero88 Chilli Pro - installation racks or Betapacks -portable 6-ways.

Strand LD90 - installation racks

Paradim, or even Pulsar....

 

Now, you say out of the 3 racks, only 48 channels work..... That MAY be down to the fact that you only have a 48-way demux.................... You can't get any of the remaining 12 unless you get another smal demux OR invest in a bigger one to replace the 48.

 

Next - the 300. This is more difficult without seeing the beast, but I'd echo the comments that your best bet is to discuss with either Strand themselves or a reputable Strand service agent. I see you're in Knutsford, so you might try White Light at blackpool - not too far away - 01253 626213, or try an e-mail. There are a few service engineers listed on their web site here, but it's not clear who's where, but I'm sure they'd pass you on.

One thing you'll need is the serial number of the desk itself - that way they can check on what the desk SHOULD be set up as (all the software exists on the base unit, but Strand use software keys to enable the upgrades).

 

You also need to know what version of the OS it has installed - upgrades for this are freely available from Strand's web site. On the support pages there, they also have a list of dealers by location, so maybe try there for a more local company.

 

You saythat DMX 1 'died' in mid show, but not whether the desk is booting up OK. If it does boot OK, have you tried connecting the demux line to universe 2 and tried to use the 48 channels that way?

Do you have or can you borrow any other DMX kit (eg moving lights, smoke/haze, etc) that you can use to test the DMX output? Because it MAY not actually be the 300 that's at fault. Between the DMX out, it seems that you have a link cable (quality unknown), with plugs each end, a demux with it's own innards that may have a fault, then the worst bit - some sort of Heath-robinson affair with totally unsuitable cabling to supply the analogue channel signals. Each step of this run needs to be assessed properly and tested for faults - better yet, modified to the correct mode of supplying dimmer racks (see above B-)).

 

Don't be so quick to condemn the desk as faulty based on the faults that you've described here. The 300 is a very good desk - ours performs very well (touches wood!!).

 

Your last point about the channel setup - has it ever been 125 channels on the display? Again, if you're just assuming it SHOULD be just because it has a sticker in the manual, this could simply be because the supplier tossed in any old 300 manual at point of sale - it sounds as though your venue bought it second hand, yes? If that's the case, then the only way you'll get more than the 50 is toget a software upgrade key from Strand - and that will cost you- loking at Stage Lx's price list that'll be a nice £775 for an additional 50 channels! :wacko:

 

Anyway, I hope this helps you out somewhat.

 

My last word is the obligatory word of caution. I note from your profile that you're just 14 going on 15. Which means, I'm afraid, that whatever you do end up doing, you MUST MUST MUST get a competent electrician involved for ANYTHING involving ANYTHING over the control voltage from the demux etc. If you have to get anywhere near the mains volts side of this setup, (especially if, as you say, the previous incumbents were very lax in their H & S practices!!!) then you should not get anywhere close. This isn't intended as an insult to your intelligence or whatever, but simply as a safeguard for YOU. It also sounds as though the whole rig needs a full and proper elctrical installation check, but in any theatre environment, this is definitely one to call in the likes of Stage Electrics, White Light, Northern Light etc as they will know what to do with the gear - domest1c sparkies won't! This also goes for any thoughts on upgrading & installing new racks.

 

Regards

TD

[paulears]

Some bits are a little confused. We have three racks of stms - using the original strand d54 demux units - these have what look lik printer type connectors, with a bit of ribbon cable disappearing into the racks. Fuses are no problem at all, virtually any electrical wholesaler, or your local dedicated lihting supplier (we use Viking) keep them. They are 10 amp versions - stms are 2k dimmers. the fuses are HRC types but a bubble dying will almost certainly take the fuse out. You seem to be prefrring the gsx over the 300 which is a bit odd. We have had both a 300 and a gsx running our stms, although we now run DMX out of the desk, with a DMX to d54 unit to make the dimmers happy. The 300 is a great desk, in my opinion, mainly because you can add extra bits, like fader panels which is useful. The channel upgrade price has always been a bit of an expensive issue, but that is the deal. I'd just ship it back to one of the big boys, as has been said. You don't scrap a decent car when it needs a new tyre or battery.

[Ynot]

Some bits are a little confused. We have three racks of stms - using the original strand d54 demux units - these have what look lik printer type connectors, with a bit of ribbon cable disappearing into the racks.

This interests me a little, Paul - fancy taking a photo of these D54 demuxes when you have a mo, cos they don't sound at all like our old D54's at all! I suppose you COULD have connected the outputs using a ribbon cable direct from the demux outputs, though. Sounds like yours wereexternal? Ours were mounted inside the racks....

 

However, back at the OP, it's the bit that he wrote

into the dimmers via three parallel printer sockets in the dimmer room. These sockets then connect up to the dimmers via 3 lengths of ribbon cable.

that sounds like they actually USED printer cable....

[peternewman]

Used Lighting currently list the following in their sales pages:

http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/Strand-D45.gif

http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/STEC-Multi-Exch2.gif

Both of which use what looks like printer cable, well DB25 to be pedantic, none of that Centronics 36 way nonsense. :wacko:

 

Therefore the OP's setup may not be quite so crazy, and running most of the way as analogue would be a bit odd, but would have involved the least work when they upgraded to DMX.

 

HTH

 

PN

[Ynot]

Used Lighting currently list the following in their sales pages:

<snipped>

well spotted, Peter :wacko:

I knew there were external demuxes but had never seen 'em!

Thanks for educating an old f@rt!

the OP's setup may not be quite so crazy, and running most of the way as analogue would be a bit odd, but would have involved the least work when they upgraded to DMX

And yeah, I know what you mean, though it does sound like a system just waiting to fail..... :huh:

Still - we'll await his update with keen interest.....

[Nick S]

I've just been looking at some of the local H+S regs in our area, and to avoid being told off severely (the dimmers have holes in them) I'm thinking of upgrading.

 

I'd echo what people have said above - although I don't normally say this, I feel that you should not take on the burden of health and safety regulations. You're under 16, and I mean no offence, but it's not your responsibility to worry about that kind of thing. In fact, it's legally not your responsibility. There will be some one over 18 at the venue you are working in who should worry about that kind of thing. You seem like a very keen guy, and if someone's said that you should be the one looking after health and safety you should say politely it's not your job - it's illegal! It won't be you who's being "told off severely", it's whoever runs the venue.

 

If you actually look at some of the health and safety regulations, you'll notice they're very serious about having responsible people take the blame for failures. In the eyes of the law, you are not a responsible person. You're probably pretty mature, and more responsible than most, but until you're older, the law says you're not responsible.

 

I don't know your situation, but I don't think you personally are in a position to replace dimmers. They are extremely complex pieces of equipment. It's not just the replacement you have to think about, it's how your get your current dimmers out, and what you do with the analogue wiring left over. If the money is there, you're welcome to spec new dimmers, but you should get a professional company to do the replacement for you.

 

Best of luck!

[strand600X]

im with everyone else on this you MUST get a qualified sparkie to check out your dimmers

 

but as regard your desk it sounds like it may never have been registered so therefore certain functions have been disabled

 

I would suggest you find the console serial key (a 36 digit number) and input that under the password softkey in the archive screen

 

It does sound like its not had the password put in it yet

 

I was wondering if you purchased an ex hire desk? If this is the case theb the first port of call would be back to your supplier

 

Baz

Opera North