Wireless DECT cans

[BenWall]

Just wondering if anyone has had the pleasure/nightmare of using this particular system. As far as I am aware there are very few places that actually have an in-house system (mainly due to the price tag).

 

I have read previous posts regarding wireless cans, and as expected there has been mixed reactions from everyone. What I am trying to research is whether there is a market for the hire of digital wireless cans.

 

In my eyes one of the main hold backs is the price to hire such a system. If you are a huge west end show then spending £25K on an advanced comm's system such as this is nothing, but for smaller pro/ameteur performances this is just not going to happen.

 

The amount of people I have spoken to that have said they would find a wireless cans system totally fantastic it really does make me wonder!

 

So out of interest what do you think (I am trying to get an all round perspective) an acceptable price is for say 5 TX/RX packs and all the other bits and bobs. including base station and aerials! This is a VERY open question I admit, but I do want input from all back grounds!

 

FREESPEAK 10 PDF Info

Clear Com General Web Page

 

Many thanks,

 

Ben

[richard]

Wireless cans are a great idea in theory, but I am yet to see a totally seamless system. I saw a form of Dect wireless cans being used by the BBC at Live 8, I'm not sure what make they were but I know they had massive problems getting them working. The ones they had used Cat 5 cable to connect distributed transmittors.

 

I have a feeling that the national may have some. But dunno if I am right.

 

Thanks

 

Ruichgard

[BenWall]

Yes the national do have some (well 40 or so....), and yes it sounds as if the BBC were using them as all of the splitters are connected via CAT 5!

 

Everyone I have spoken to at the NT has praised them no end!

 

Ben.

[d_korman]

The Stadttheater in Minden, Germany, has had a system based on an Ericsson wireless PBX system for years (it was there when I lit a show there 10 years ago). In use it's exactly like a wired system, just without the wires.

[Peter Russell]

Everyone I have spoken to at the NT has praised them no end!

 

After the initial couple of months it took to set them up to provide adequate coverage that is..... :blink:

 

Whilst they are a good product I am not convinced that they would be suitable for touring / one off setup, but would be fine for an installation.

 

It may be worth having a look at the HME dect comms

I had a brief play with them at the end of last year and whilst not great units they seemed ok.

 

 

Peter

[mackerr]

Is this focus on digital comm systems because of RF availability issues in the UK? I have not used the Clear Com cellular system. but it would be of more interest to large area systems because of the ability to extend the system by adding another cell. You may not need the multi channel capability as well. Is there a reason to avoid systems like the HME Pro850, or Telex BTR800? Both of these systems are in wide use in the US. I have personally used them in systems of up to 28 stations of RF beltpacks. They have both been reliable with only the base station mounted whips in small to medium rooms, for coverage beyond a couple of hundred feet they should both be used with remote mounted high gain transmit and receive antennae.

 

My only experience with the HME digital system left me thinking the audio quality was not good, and there was noticable latency through the system.

 

Mac

[Stutwo]

The Dect Tecpro system made by Canford has always worked superbly well for us. We hire it from Hi-Lights in the North East for our stage manager to use, and although it has to be restarted every now and again, it is clear as a bell. We looked at buying a system (it was around £1000 for the beltpack and transmitter) but it doesn't seem to be in production anymore.

 

Edit: After a bit or research it is the WS-250 from Canford or the DTB-2001 from Digitaltalkback who don't seem to exist anymore. Either way, it's nowhere to be found.

[Ben Langfeld]

I've no idea what product they are, but the "FOH" staff at the NEC Arena use a radio cans system. At least I think they are house staff. They definitely weren't touring with Rammstein.

[BenWall]

No the question was not because of RF availability, it was just a question to who, if anyone, had used that particular system. I have used it once, and thought it was VERY impressive, no latency and superb coverage (obviously time was spent designing placement of aerials!).

 

I was more interested in the sort of prices people were paying/willing to pay to hire out such a system from both an amateur and professional point of view!

 

Ben.

[dbuckley]

... Is there a reason to avoid systems like the HME Pro850, or Telex BTR800?

No reason at all, however, the whole issue of wireless intercomms is a bit of a can of worms, you need to know that there are several types of wireless intercomm, and not all wireless intercomms are created equal.

 

The simplest form of wireless intercomm is the humble (simplex) walkie talkie (WT), whereby all units use a single frequency, everyone gets a push-to-talk button (PTT), and only one person can talk at once. Its OK as far as it goes, but the only one talker can be a bit of a problem in some circumstances, especially if one WT gets either accidentally or deliberatly latched transmitting, no-one else can get a guaranteed breakin. On this system a user is either transmitting or listening. These systems do not interface well with conventional wired intercoms, the only realistic way is either through use of call button as transmit (ugh) or by using voice operating transmit (ugh). So as an integrated part of the traditional intercom setup they are a non-starter, but we all know how indispensible they are for what they are. Are used on UHF or (more usually) VHF bands, either in assigned frequencies or in a free-for-all set of public frequencies.

 

Next up is what is called a repeater system, whereby all outstations transmit on one frequency, and listen on another. A good example is the Production Intercom HD903 which I've never actually seen, but it uses an off-the-shelf Icom repeater station. The only apparent advantages of this setup is greater range through using a macho central transmitter, but the real value from our perspective is that the central transmitter is transmitting continuously, so integration with a standard wired intercom is possible, and works transparently from the wired users perspective. From the WT users perpective, he has a standard PTT radio, so it feels like a WT, but it behaves a bit like a beltpack intercom (as in you're on the loop) but the disadvantages of a single outstation transmitting at once remain, and the wireless users still need to use a PTT button. Exactly like a simplex WT, this setup is used on UHF or (more usually) VHF bands, either in assigned frequencies or in a free-for-all set of public frequencies.

 

The come the boxes like the ones macerr refers to. These work very like the repeater setup, but each outstation has its own link frequency, and thus each outstation can be transmitting all the time. Thus a four station system needs five separate frequencies. The huge advantage is that it really does work like a beltpack system, everyone can be talking at once and hearing everyone. The drawbacks are that as the number of stations go up, so do the number of frequencies required, and they may be competing for wireless mic frequencies. In order to get more stations these systems usually allow outstations to operate in PTT mode, allowing several outstations to transmit on the same frequency (but not at the same time) giving a mix of genuine full duplex and PTT stations. Theres no black magic with these, RF setup and frequency management is entirely traditional.

 

Then come the digital systems. These dont use frequencies per link like traditional radio comms, they use multiple frequencies or spread spectrum technology to magically make multiple simultaneous links whilst requiring no user setup other than identifying which boxes are in a group. Thus the way these sets "feel" (ie simplex, half duplex, full duplex) depends on the software inside the radios, rather than on the features of the RF technology involved, unlike all the other systems listed. Thus you need to check just what it is you are buying! As these systems use digital magic, and you dont always have control over what frequencies they use, the RF setup and frequency management can be difficult or impossible.

 

As is often the case, you pays your (not inconsiderable sum of) money and takes your choice.

[BenWall]

Post about can's headsets moved to existing topic here.