Band PA help

[marsonpee]

Hello

I am in the process of trying to get together a semi-decent setup so I can deal with band PA and so forth. I am looking for mixers#and havn't a clue about which manufacturers are good quality and which arnt. My mixer requirements are for it to be approx 32 ch which should keep me ok for all events id be intending to do. The ones I have spotted are:

 

Yamaha MG32/14FX

Soundcraft live 4 II 32ch

Allen & Heath GL-2400-32

 

These 3 boards are within my budget of approx £1500 but ideally I would like to save money so I can buy more gear such as outboard. My main question is the quality of the Yamaha unit with it being the cheapest, would it hack it and is it any good?. I have used Soundcraft live boards before and found them to be good quality, but are they worth twice Yamaha?

 

Hope you guys can help :)

[Mr.Si]

Hi there and welcome. Hope you have a good stay.

 

On that list, I'd personally only go for the last one of the three you've listed.

The problem with the Yamaha MG Mixers is that they don't have a swept (semi parametric) mid range EQ, just a fixed one. Now if you want to invest in a mixer, then this IMO, is not the best one to go for. I have a small one, an MG12/4FX and that, I shall be using for small conference / speech / type events where the requirements are much easier to deal with.

 

Yamaha Build Qaulity is great - Metal casing rather than the more plasticy feel of spirit consoles. Also, the faders on them have some physical resistance which I've come to prefer over the loose feel of the spirit range.

 

I've never used a Spirit Live desk, the nearest I've got to that, is a spirit LX7 - now if you can find one of those, then they're a good mixer and a common one. Other than that I'd not like to comment.

 

My natural reaction tells me the GL2400, unless you can get a S/H GL2200.

 

If you go S/H, make sure it all works well and has been looked after. (But I guess that sounds a little patronising).

 

Outboard - Behringer Compressors are lovely bits of kit, probably one of their best bits of equipment, and for the price - :) otherwise dBx 266 compressors might be the next step up.

FX - Alesis Midiverb / TC Electronics M One / that sort of thing.

 

Do you have mics?

[marsonpee]

Mic wise I was hoping for Beta 52 for kick, SM57's for toms/snare, SM58 vocals, SM57 guitar amps. Not sure about overheads yet. Outboard I was hoping for some of DBX's budget/mid stuff. Ampwise im with crown XS series or Yamaha P7000SE. And speakers turbosound TXD.

 

Hows that all sound as a setup?

[Mr.Si]

This, I'm guessing / hoping has a different budget to the mixer!

 

You'd be well with that gear I'd say.

[jim b]

Evening chaps,

 

I'd rank the desks in order of preference thus:

 

1. GL2400

2. Spirit live

3. Yamaha MG32/14FX

 

(1 being the highest).

 

The reason being that while all of the desks can do the job you're asking of them, the one which provides the most powerful EQ section and high build quality is the GL2400. I don't find the difference between the EQs on the spirit range as opposed to the new GL range to be at all minor. The Yamaha with its lack of a swept mid control does fall at the first hurdle in my mind for any serious band reinforcement.

 

Mics wise, if the Beta52 is your preferred kick drum mic, then knock yourself out. I'd personally steer clear of the 57s and spend that little bit more for the Beta 57a-very similar sound wise but has a much stronger grille which resists the clumsy drummer well. The B57a can also be diverted to vocal duty if needed.

 

For toms my personal preference in your rough price range is the Sennheiser e604: clips on nice and neat and sounds nice. I've also had good shows with the small AKG clip on drum mics. See if you can get demos of them.

 

Overheads on a budget can be done with PG81s and I'm sure a host of other low cost condensers will be recommended. At the end of the day in smaller venues these won't get much chance to shine unless for a quiet drummer or on hi hat.

 

One thing to remember is that it's at least as much about the guy operating the gear as it is about what names you have on boxes (not that any of the boxes in questions would be a very bad choice). Attention to detail and attitude often get more gigs than just having shiny kit, nice though it is.

 

Hope that helps

 

Jim

[Bobbsy]

On the mixer side, I think previous posters have pretty much summed up the situation. For a band PA, the EQ section is important and A&H is the best on your shortlist with the Soundcraft (to my ears) a pretty close second.

 

On the mic side, your list sounds okay. If this is a rig to hire out I suspect you should stick with the SM58s for vocals since they're "rider friendly" but if the choice is down to you, I suggest you have a listen to the Audix range (OM5/6/7 depending on the pickup pattern that works best for you). These are in a similar price range to the Shure and is a newer, much nicer sounding mic.

 

No problem with your amp shortlist, though I admit to a liking for Crown. You might consider QSC as well.

 

Bob

[Rich]

The problem with the Yamaha MG Mixers is that they don't have a swept (semi parametric) mid range EQ, just a fixed one.

 

They do have a swept mid see here (zoom in on the picture)

 

I've just bought a GL2400, and think it's fantastic! The sound quality is very good. I've never used a Spirit Live, so I can't give you a comparison, but I've used one of the smaller Yamaha's and it's not got the sonic quality of the A&H (however it's cheaper).

 

I'd say that the A&H is worth saving up for, the extra you get is worth the money. If you're looking for a flightcase, the flightcase warehouse do reasonably priced cases that are good quality.

[Pete]

Cat amongst the pigeons time!

 

Have you considered a Spirit live 8?Its an 8 bus board which IMHO gives you much more flexibility?

A 32 channel 0ne s/h with a flightcase will probably cost you as much as a gl2400!

 

Oh and another vote for the sennheiser Tom Mics

 

and for snare have you considered the Beta 56?

[i_hate_fisicks]

Have you considered a Spirit live 8?Its an 8 bus board which IMHO gives you much more flexibility?

A 32 channel 0ne s/h with a flightcase will probably cost you as much as a gl2400!

 

But they are remarkably rubbish (obviously in my own humble opinion!)!

 

I'll add a vote for Allen & Heath, it's much better than the others mentioned. Kind of a minimum standard for band work in my mind.

 

The small Yamahas are great though. The little 8 channel one, I forget the model number, costs almost nothing and is built like a tank. We had 3 ARCs boxes fall on one last summer, and with the application of a hammer it still works fine, and you'd be hard pressed to tell that it was ever a speaker impact pad. So if you needed such a thing for small applications, they're great (though lacking the swept mid).

 

Sorry for the somewhat off topic ramble.

[Bobbsy]

They do have a swept mid see here (zoom in on the picture)

 

One band of swept mid as opposed to two bands on the A&H and Soundcraft. I can't fault the build quality on the Yammies, but on the economy ranges the EQ section has always been a weak spot. Yes, you can use them, but it's easier to get a good sound out of A&H (and also Soundcraft).

 

Weird alternative idea for consideration: If this is for personal use rather than renting out, maybe think of a digital board, either a second hand 01V or a new DDX3216 with expansion boards and mic pres to make up to 32 channels. The presets, lots of built in effects, and things like gating and compression (as well as small sizes) make these nice to use for your application. However, I repeat my caveat that it would be for YOU to mix with; don't expect strangers to be able to walk up to them and get the best out of them. Well...some of us early digital adopters could, but...

 

Bob

[mal421]

Another vote for A&H also the Sennheiser E604 for toms . I also use the E602 on kick and ATM33's for overheads .

[Mr.Si]

Oh my bad, Rich, I take it back and hold my hands up in error. It must be the larger boards that have that feature.

However, like Bobbsy says, 1 swept, not 2.

 

But considering the lower price, it is an attractive option and it'll keep you on your toes to find better ways of making the best sound for what you have, rather than rely on more EQ options, nice though it is.

 

Si

[marsonpee]

They do have a swept mid see here (zoom in on the picture)

One band of swept mid as opposed to two bands on the A&H and Soundcraft...

 

Strange mension of the Behringer DDX3216, I'm trying to stay away from behringer mixers because of the endless slatings in quality they get. Sure the additional features make a plus poitn and its cheap, but cheap for a reason.

[Gistybit]

Strange mension of the Behringer DDX3216...

 

digital mixers do have their advantage.

at £1439 the Yamaha 01v96 is within your budget. Granted you have to buy an expansion board (my8at £199.00) and mic pre's (behringer ada8000 £173) to get up to 32 channels, you will however not have to buy any outboard gear (except if you need anything other than gating, compresion and delay).

That gives you a considerable smaller package and all the benefits of a digital mixer.

 

edit:

a second hand 01v would also fit your needs, you need to buy them with an expansion board, since they aren't sold anymore

[Bobbsy]

digital mixers do have their advantage...

 

Since the basic 01V96 only has 12 mic pre amps, to get up to 32 channels would require an MY16AT plus 3 ADA8000s. However, this would actually give 36 mic inputs plus 2 stereo channels.

 

As for effects, it's not just gating/compression/delay. There are also several channels of Yamaha-quality effects with all the gizmos you could need like reverb, chorus, flanging etc.

 

If you throw all this into the equation, maybe a new 01V96 is still within budget...and it's certainly easier to carry than a full size analogue board and a full rack of outboard!

 

As for the Behringer, the DDX3216 is pretty well thought of in the "gigging band" community over on the AAPLS newsgroup. I've used them (though not extensively) and have been very impressed at what you get for the money. However, if you could stretch for the Yamaha that would be my first choice.

 

However, I do repeat my caution from above: I'm a great fan of digital boards but only if there is going to be a dedicated sound op who can get to know the equipment. If this gear is for dry hire or will be used by casual ops, stick to analogue. That said, if it was just for me, digital would be my choice.

 

Bob