Recommendations for installation and accoustics

[greateastern]

Hi,

 

I am about to move to Worthing where my Dad is to become the minister at the URC. The building currently has acoustics like a cave and feedback from the echo. It clearly needs some major attention and a building project that is in the works provides the perfect opportunity. Thing is I have next to no experience and am defintiely not an accoustic engineer. Can anyone suggest anyone who would be suitable that I could recommend? Once again the area is Worthing, near Brighton and I am primarily looking for someone who could help with accoustics. The sound installation may also be up for review but that is a secondary, and somewhat harder to achieve, issue which I want to be more involved with personally - I'll probably be back to ask for help sometime soon!

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[Simon Lewis]

Andy,

 

It's worth dealing with this professionally. Blue Room participants may give you some very good advice, but it may cost a lot of money to put the errant URC building right. You want to have a guarantee that it will sound good when the work is done.

 

Although I suspect he won't come too cheap, I have great respect for Peter Mapp. He's based in Colchester, so isn't too far from you.

 

You might also want to try a personal message to Mr Si (of this board) and see if the company he works for is able to help.

 

 

Simon

 

PS - I know that the answer is usually "add absorption", but sometimes it's "add difussion", and sometimes it's both. The trick is knowing how much of each and where to put it.

[alqueenan]

There are quite a few acoustic consultancies near you. Look here. Or to go down another tack, you could make enquiries with some of the consultancies better known for auditorium acoustics - Sandy Brown associates LLP being one of the most illustrious.

[Bobbsy]

The previous poster got in before me, but I've used Sandy Brown Associates on several projects now. They were always thoroughly professional and nice people to work with to boot. I can't recommend them highly enough.

 

 

 

Bob

[greateastern]

It's worth dealing with this professionally. Blue Room participants may give you some very good advice, but it may cost a lot of money to put the errant URC building right. You want to have a guarantee that it will sound good when the work is done.

 

Thanks I may not have been clear but I was trying to ask for a recommendation of a pro to use.

 

 

Thanks everyone for the help I will now do some recommending, I've already told them they need a pro and they accept it. The building hasn't been right since it was built :) All hard surfaces and all sorts! Thanks again for your help.

 

Andy

[Simon Lewis]

Thanks I may not have been clear but I was trying to ask for a recommendation of a pro to use.

 

I should have made it clear that that Peter Mapp is the principle of an acoustic consultancy.

 

I trust you get your space sorted!!

 

Simon

[RustyBrooks]

May be worth giving Wigwam Accoustics a ring, I know they are a long way away, but the installation department have a vast amount of experience with tricky accoustic spaces.

 

Both Salisbury and Lincoln catherdrals, and quite a few church's around the country.

 

Speak to Tim Mortimer on 01706 363400

[Mr.Si]

Hi Greateastern,

 

I would like to welcome you to the land of West Sussex!

Being local to Worthing, I will send you a PM.

 

(Thanks for the hinting there Simon. :) )

[Solstace]

Ello!

 

Was just about to mention here that Mr Si might be able to give you some help, but he's already been prompted I see...

 

Meanwhile, I'd also suggest giving Wigwam a call - But before you do so, I should warn you that you'll need some really good ideas as to what you'll be wanting to do. From experience, this will likely be a project that grows with you and your church, rather than being something that can just be done as a one-off.

 

While I'm no expert in acoustics, please feel free to PM me if you want any more details of our previous experience here @ Christ Church, Clifton (Bristol).

 

C :D

[Simon Lewis]

[treading very carefully]

 

With the greatest respect to the wonderful guys at Wigwam, I would suggest there is some difference between a PA hire and installation company (albeit one of the biggest and probably one of the best in the country) and an acoustic consultancy ;-)

 

That's not to say that they do not have extensive experience of installations, and it's not to say that they couldn't provide acoustic treatment to improve the situation the OP describes. However my understanding of a consultancy is that they sell their professional knowledge, not products.

 

This might be me being slightly pedantic, but I think there is a distinction to be drawn between the two.

 

Simon

 

[/treading very carefully]

[Solstace]

I think you've got the right end of the stick there, Simon!

 

Certainly with our install I've got no problems with the way Wigwam have specified/installed/supported our system, hence why I was happy to be another person to suggest adding them to the OP's call list.

 

Our situation is that other than the odd drum screen or (temporary) draped cloths, we've got nowhere to put any acoustic treatment that would do any good, without serious objections being made on the grounds of aesthetics and/or costs.

 

For someone starting from scratch, and with adequate funds, I'm sure that between a professional acoustics consultancy company and a well-versed installation company, there's more than a fighting chance of getting a workable solution.

[paulears]

Over accross on the theatre-sound list this topic always causes explosions. I don't see why it can't get at least an airing here?

 

My own feelings are that for projects like this, a consultant must be totally free to specifiy equipment that will solve problems. Cutting the available kit list down to products that are in a companies own portfolio limits this a great deal. Decisions get made based on the margin available on particular items and whatever anybody says, this colours judgement quite a lot. You can always get in equipment from outside of your portfolo, but costs make this unprofitable in many cases. 'Real' consultants simply provide the shopping list - they don't sell you the kit. This is what the theatre sound list people get so upset about. Over in the states consultants consult, and dealers sell - here, probably because the subject is less understood, the market is smaller and US style consultancies are few, we tend to go with favoured dealers with plenty of experience, like Wigwam, mentioned here. The UK version of consultancy often does add sales into the plan. With good advice and balance, this isn't always bad and does have one advantage. If a piece of kit specifies doesn't quite cut it, they can provide an alternative to actually try - a true consultancy can't do this - they spec product XYZ and it gets bought from probably a box shifter at high volume/low margin. These people are unlikely to take the item back.

 

If the UK was as big a market as the US we'd probably use their system, but what we have seems to work - for us!

[timperrett]

The company I work for installs around 50 to 60 churches a year with sound and audio visual, it is the installs department's primary business. If you want to get in touch, site surveys are usually free. www.bhsound.co.uk for further info.

 

(I hope this does not consitute an advert!)

[Simon Lewis]

Tim,

 

The OP wants to sort out the building acoustics first, hence the reason why several posters suggested acoustic consultants who were experts in dealing with this.

 

A good acoustician should be able to treat the space to deliver agreed and verifiable results in terms of RT60, STI, NC etc., etc. so that it behaves well even without a sound reinforcement system.

 

(I hope this does not consitute an advert!)

Don't know - better ask a moderator!

 

Do say "Hi" to Brian and Stan!

 

regards,

 

Simon Lewis

[BlueShift]

We also used Wigwam for our new install at our church (Soul Survivor, Watford). And although I agree with what Simon Lewis is saying, the thing about using a large company like Wigwam is they can take care of your install from start to finish - everything from design to install to training.

When we re-did our warehouse it involved acoustic treatment as well as equipment install and Wigwam ended up subcontracting out some of the acoustic work to other more specialised companies. So, although they are predominantly a sales/hire company they have the right connections to consultants, training staff, manufacturing companies, etc.. to get the job done.

 

So while you could contact these people yourself, a turnkey solution can be attractive. A reputable company such as Wigwam isnt going to fudge the acoustics because they want to sell you some boxes, they will get you the right people for the job, even if they arent directly on their payroll. Highly recommended

 

Now, there are plenty of other highly reputable companies out there who would probably take the same approach and may well be represented here on the Blue Room, these were just my comments on one particular install that seemed similar to your situation.

 

Thanks