Non Payment

[OddSocks]

Hi Guys,

I just want to get peoples opinions on a situation that I have not been in before. Until recently I have always done jobs for people I know or have built a bit of a relationship with, so non payment has never been an issue.

About 2.5 months ago I was contacted by a friend on Facebook asking if I could do a charity event that his boss was putting on and if so how much would it be. I costed the job up and sent it to my friend stating that I would apply a 50% discount as it was for a charity.

My friend said that the price I gave was what they had been quoted by a different guy who had to pull out at the last minute, and he would pass the price and my number on to his boss.

Next day his boss calls me and we agree that I will do the job at the price I quoted.

So after so text messages and emails confirming get in times and PLI / Electrical documents, the show goes ahead with no issues.

A few days latter I sent an invoice to the email that the documents were sent to.

After a month, having not heard anything, I sent a second email with the invoice and received an auto response saying he was away for a few days.

Two weeks later I was chatting to my Facebook friend and asked if he could have a quiet discreet word. He was told that his boss was waiting for an invoice from me. I decided to send the invoice again and also text the bosses number saying that I had sent it.

Now after 2 months and not having heard anything I am thinking of resending the invoice by email and signed for mail and send a text again saying that this is what I have done. I am also thinking of stating that if the invoice is not paid in the next 30 days I will remove the 50% discount.

I'm wondering is all this a reasonable response, or am I making a big mistake.

Now I am thinking that I ave probably already made the big mistake by not confirming our telephone conversation by email and also not giving a payment period or stating that the discount would be removed, but as stated at the beginning I've not had this problem before, but I will learn from it http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

[ImagineerTom]

You can’t “revoke” The discount you offered (well you can but it won’t stand up in court) the best action now is to start a small claims action against them; just because you start the action it doesn’t mean you have to go through with it but it’s an amazingly good tool for reminding people that owe you money that they do have to pay and you are serious about this.

 

Moneyclaim online is a very easy to use system

[OddSocks]

I did wonder if that was the case.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Ynot]

One thing you can do with impunity is include interest on any unpaid bills that have gone past your stated payment term date (assuming you have one on your invoice). There's a formula as I recall to help you work out what interest you can charge - it isn't much as a monthly figure but again can help focus the devtor's mind.

And you can also include any costs you incur (eg court fees) during the claim process.

 

It's all available online - search for MCOL - Money Claims OnLine

[Brian]

Why don't you pick up the phone and call him?

[OddSocks]

Why don't you pick up the phone and call him?

 

 

That is a good question that I don't really have a good answer to.

 

[sandall]

Was this a Charity event or a "charity" event (they tend to work to different rules)? It's an unfortunate fact of life that some event organiser are keener to pay than others. For people or organisations I haven't worked with before I always put "cleared funds before the event" on the quote (they will have had to pay the venue in full at least 2 weeks before their event, so it doesn't seem an unreasonable request). Sometimes this produces cheques weeks or even months ahead, sometimes it means collaring the money-man before he leaves the building & a couple of times it has meant a visit to their HQ to wait while cheque-signers were summoned, but while I've been short-changed a few times, I've only had one total non-payer.

 

Unless this was a charity you know all about it might be worth doing a bit of research into their organisation & officers - embarrassment can be far more effective than threats of legal action.

[timmeh2]

Hi

 

 

Registered Charity or not, if you have a contract in place where they agree to pay you for a service, it makes no difference in the eyes of the law.

At this point I wouldn't get into a verbal conversation with them - everything needs to be written and documented.

 

The 'I didn't get your email' excuse is common. Send it to them recorded delivery, that way they have to sign for it, which makes it harder to argue they haven't seen it. You can't remove the discount for non-payment but as others have said you are entitled to add additional charges; check here for the what the government says. https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery

 

If you don't get a reply within 21 days of the date of the letter you are then permitted to send a solicitor's letter stating that if you do not receive payment you are legally entitled to sue them. Again, you have to give them time to react, usually another 21 days. Usually the solicitor's letter does the trick as any MD worth his salt will no that if they go to court they are pretty much guaranteed to lose, and a judgement against the company can damage their reputation with banks and suppliers, and you can also apply to have the costs of the case levied against them.

 

The thing with legal action is it is a very long drawn out and protracted affair, however the more patient you are, the more you are likely to succeed.

 

If all the nicey-nicey has been exhausted then don't feel you are doing the wrong thing by chasing them through the small claims court - that's what it's there for.

 

All the best

Timmeh

 

 

[sandall]

All good advice from Timmeh, but a "I really don't want to have to take legal action, but ......" note sent with a copy invoice by signed-for post is a lot quicker if it is a genuine oversight. A threat to put them on the BECTU blacklist can also get a rapid response from those who would prefer not to pay, but if they really are a bunch of shysters it might be worth considering whether you would be better off cutting your losses (depending on the amount involved) & making sure it doesn't happen again.

[timsabre]

Though we do not like to talk about money, a quick phone call as Brian suggests may bring results. It is a lot harder to ignore a polite phone call.

[Brian]

I don't think we are talking about a charity not paying. The OP said...

 

...a charity event that his boss was putting on...

[OddSocks]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I did try phoning him today but it went straight to voice mail so I left a message. I will try again tomorow and see what happens.

If I don't get any response by the end of the week I think I will send another Email and signed for copy along with a note that if nothing happens I will have to take it further.

We are talking a private individual putting on an event sponsored by the company he works for, raising money for a local charity.

I am wondering whether to also send a letter to the company's director and the charity just to let them know what is going on in their names.

 

[timmeh2]

Hi

 

Personally I would refrain from dragging their names through the dirt as this kind of action can rapidly escalate into more than just words.

 

People tend to be more responsive if you do it quietly.

[ImagineerTom]

I feel you’ve already done more than enough and he’s made it clear that he is avoiding you.

 

Send one final copy of the invoice, along with a cover note stating that in 14 days time you will begin legal action to recover the outstanding sum if cleared payment hasn’t been received. 16 days after you send that letter (and assuming you haven’t been paid) just start a claim via moneyclaim online. You don’t need a solicitor and you only need to send one clear, explicit warning that the payment is overdue and that you will take legal action to recover.

 

Any other course of action is just further delaying you getting paid; I understand your reluctance to take such a terminal action but the reality is the situation is already beyond rescue & you are never going to work for this customer again so you aren’t actually burning any bridges.

[Junior8]

Probably best to write it off to experience - if only in your own mind. There are people mounting events for 'charity' who won't pay whatever happens. I am owed £15 from 1972 in precisely the same circumstances and research in the local media for the area shows he is still up to the same tricks 46 years later!!!! :( Edited October 23, 2018 by Junior8