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Outside Concert Speakers


Jupton24

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Hi,

 

I am a student technician at a School. We have recently had a outside stage installed it is wood. The school has given the tech department money to spend on speakers for the stage. They want lots of base and very clear treble. They would have keyboards and microphones and guitars playing. What are the best speakers for this job? the sound would have to travel 100m without losing the quality. They would Idealy not be fixed to the stage and are easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room and not requiring each speaker to be powered by mains electricity.

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

James

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Hi,

 

I am a student technician at a School. We have recently had a outside stage installed it is wood. The school has given the tech department money to spend on speakers for the stage. They want lots of base and very clear treble. They would have keyboards and microphones and guitars playing. What are the best speakers for this job? the sound would have to travel 100m without losing the quality. They would Idealy not be fixed to the stage and are easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room and not requiring each speaker to be powered by mains electricity.

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

James

 

James, not sure if this is homework, but as a student, you may get more input from the forum if you put forward your own thoughts and suggestions and asked for thoughts on that.

Meanwhile a few pointers, some of which you may have already studied...

- what is the size of the stage and the shape of the area for sound coverage?

- 120dB at 1m from source will become ~80dB 100m from source, assuming no physical obstructions

- a 10dB increase is perceived by the human ear to be a doubling or halving of volume

- a 40dB range is enormous and you will not provide audible levels at the back without deafening the front, with a ground stacked or flown source at the stage. That's why there are delay towers dotted around at festivals.

- check out the definitions of "base" and bass", they have different meanings

- what do you mean by "easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room"? This means different things to different people. 4 stacks of C7 or Q7 & a couple of B2s fall into that category in my book, but possibly not others. C7 is ideally a 2-man lift, Q7 is a one man lift and easy if you're tall.

- keys & guitars... no drums?

- what is the budget?

- The amplifiers, which would be mains powered would typically be positioned inside or under cover. Professional boxes don't normally worry if they encounter a little rain (again, think festivals)

 

Hopefully this gives you some things to think about and come back with after doing some research. Oh, one other thing, microphones don't "play"...

Edited by TonyMitchell
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If this is for real, then expectations are pretty low, because your neighbours will go mad and complain. If it's a paperwork project, then we also need to know the level you're working at. There's little point us getting clever about on and off axis sound, beam angles, dispersion and then practical elements, if all it is doing is making announcements. If the idea is to be louder than the musicians, and amplify them accurately and balance the sound sources properly, then your budget will need to be substantial. If the idea is a few guitar amps and keys on a basic outdoor stage, then maybe all the PA needs to do is amplify the quiet things.

 

tell us your cunning plan - what you think and then we'll find the positives - the things that will be great, but we'll also find many of the terrible and hopeless ideas. To be very honest - your 'title' worries me. Schools and colleges often bandy these titles around but very, very rarely does it indicate very much. Many teachers, low on the technical scale in vent these titles so that anytime they need sound or lights, they point at you and you sort it.

 

You will find some teachers of theatre technical or music tech are really knowledgeable but others are simply terrible and have a very poor understanding of how our world is. Hopefully, yours is OK. I hate outside jobs like this because expectations rarely get met.

 

You were thinking of quality - but outside the key physics is the inverse square law. no matter how loud you start, it dies away to a whisper at a distance. Same applies to Glastonbury as well as bog standard high school. In the expensive world, you use speaker systems that throw sound in a more controlled way. normally the sound disperses in width and height. Height is a bit pointless, nobody is upon there, so better systems funnel the wasted sound in a more useful direction - but cost lots. light breeze can throw your sound three miles away the wrong way and people on site can't hear it.

 

100W might be enough, but the next step up really is approaching 1000W to make real differences. this messes up the budget.

 

So we need to know as much detail as you can manage. If it really is a real project we can then help. If it's a hypothetical bit of work, then the teacher who set it's questions are vital, not your rewording. Copy and paste it if you like, then we'll know the spin they've given you and perhaps any red herrings thrown in to fox you. I was a sneaky bugger and always set traps for my thicker students who I knew would use Google. Ask away!

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1563304805[/url]' post='575481']

Hi,

 

I am a student technician at a School. We have recently had a outside stage installed it is wood. The school has given the tech department money to spend on speakers for the stage. They want lots of base and very clear treble. They would have keyboards and microphones and guitars playing. What are the best speakers for this job? the sound would have to travel 100m without losing the quality. They would Idealy not be fixed to the stage and are easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room and not requiring each speaker to be powered by mains electricity.

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

James

 

From experience if this is a real query, Soundgear Orbit 4’s are the best option

These boxes will carry a clear vocal to 100mtrs with one box per side

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153079599033

 

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Hi,

 

I am a student technician at a School. We have recently had a outside stage installed it is wood. The school has given the tech department money to spend on speakers for the stage. They want lots of base and very clear treble. They would have keyboards and microphones and guitars playing. What are the best speakers for this job? the sound would have to travel 100m without losing the quality. They would Idealy not be fixed to the stage and are easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room and not requiring each speaker to be powered by mains electricity.

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

James

 

James, not sure if this is homework, but as a student, you may get more input from the forum if you put forward your own thoughts and suggestions and asked for thoughts on that.

Meanwhile a few pointers, some of which you may have already studied...

- what is the size of the stage and the shape of the area for sound coverage?

- 120dB at 1m from source will become ~80dB 100m from source, assuming no physical obstructions

- a 10dB increase is perceived by the human ear to be a doubling or halving of volume

- a 40dB range is enormous and you will not provide audible levels at the back without deafening the front, with a ground stacked or flown source at the stage. That's why there are delay towers dotted around at festivals.

- check out the definitions of "base" and bass", they have different meanings

- what do you mean by "easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room"? This means different things to different people. 4 stacks of C7 or Q7 & a couple of B2s fall into that category in my book, but possibly not others. C7 is ideally a 2-man lift, Q7 is a one man lift and easy if you're tall.

- keys & guitars... no drums?

- what is the budget?

- The amplifiers, which would be mains powered would typically be positioned inside or under cover. Professional boxes don't normally worry if they encounter a little rain (again, think festivals)

 

Hopefully this gives you some things to think about and come back with after doing some research. Oh, one other thing, microphones don't "play"...

 

 

 

Hi, The school has a budget of £10,000. The stage is 10x10 and would need to cover 50x50m area but just about heard from 100m away. there is no physical obstructions as it is a open field pretty much. there is a couple of houses near by. by easily packed down I am meaning they can fit through doors so they can be kept inside and they can be stacked on top of another without damaging them. I have been informed by other people that I have been talking to that the BOSE 802 would do a good job at it but I don't know if the bass would be clear on them. They would have drums as well. the stage is going to be multi purpose so the audio is quite key. what do you mean by C7 and B2.

 

Hi,

 

I am a student technician at a School. We have recently had a outside stage installed it is wood. The school has given the tech department money to spend on speakers for the stage. They want lots of base and very clear treble. They would have keyboards and microphones and guitars playing. What are the best speakers for this job? the sound would have to travel 100m without losing the quality. They would Idealy not be fixed to the stage and are easily packed down and stored away not taking up much room and not requiring each speaker to be powered by mains electricity.

 

Your help is much appreciated

 

James

 

From experience if this is a real query, Soundgear Orbit 4's are the best option

These boxes will carry a clear vocal to 100mtrs with one box per side

https://rover.ebay.c...%2F153079599033

 

 

Hi,

yes it is a real query I have been told to research and find the best one that will suit them and give back to them a sheet telling which speakers to buy. but I don't know very much in this area hence why I am asking you guys for help.

 

If this is for real, then expectations are pretty low, because your neighbours will go mad and complain. If it's a paperwork project, then we also need to know the level you're working at. There's little point us getting clever about on and off axis sound, beam angles, dispersion and then practical elements, if all it is doing is making announcements. If the idea is to be louder than the musicians, and amplify them accurately and balance the sound sources properly, then your budget will need to be substantial. If the idea is a few guitar amps and keys on a basic outdoor stage, then maybe all the PA needs to do is amplify the quiet things.

 

tell us your cunning plan - what you think and then we'll find the positives - the things that will be great, but we'll also find many of the terrible and hopeless ideas. To be very honest - your 'title' worries me. Schools and colleges often bandy these titles around but very, very rarely does it indicate very much. Many teachers, low on the technical scale in vent these titles so that anytime they need sound or lights, they point at you and you sort it.

 

You will find some teachers of theatre technical or music tech are really knowledgeable but others are simply terrible and have a very poor understanding of how our world is. Hopefully, yours is OK. I hate outside jobs like this because expectations rarely get met.

 

You were thinking of quality - but outside the key physics is the inverse square law. no matter how loud you start, it dies away to a whisper at a distance. Same applies to Glastonbury as well as bog standard high school. In the expensive world, you use speaker systems that throw sound in a more controlled way. normally the sound disperses in width and height. Height is a bit pointless, nobody is upon there, so better systems funnel the wasted sound in a more useful direction - but cost lots. light breeze can throw your sound three miles away the wrong way and people on site can't hear it.

 

100W might be enough, but the next step up really is approaching 1000W to make real differences. this messes up the budget.

 

So we need to know as much detail as you can manage. If it really is a real project we can then help. If it's a hypothetical bit of work, then the teacher who set it's questions are vital, not your rewording. Copy and paste it if you like, then we'll know the spin they've given you and perhaps any red herrings thrown in to fox you. I was a sneaky bugger and always set traps for my thicker students who I knew would use Google. Ask away!

 

Hi, Thank you for your understanding. no this is a genuine query the head has come directly to me and said 'go and find some speakers for our outside stage they have to begged quality as the stage is multi purpose' that is why I have come to you for help as I don't know very much in this. People have said Bose 802 would be good for this but the bass is not clear enough said others. I ideally would be looking for a PA system but has to be able to handle keyboards and drums and guitars being plugged into it. the venue size is 50x50 is is quite small but in future they might want to move it to a bigger venue so has to have that flexibility. They would be primarily be used for a concert/ festival with local bands and school bands playing on them but be clear enough so harmonic groups could be heard.

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what do you mean by C7 and B2.

 

I didn't know either, so I googled "c7 q7 b2 speakers" and the first result is your answer!

 

 

 

 

Ah thank you for that when I just put one in it just showed up with the Q7 car I was a bit baffled about that

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Couple of my observations. You say that they want lots of bass, but the examples you give are not bass heavy. By saying that you want it to be easily packed away, it would suggest that a ground stack system is going to have to be what yuo look for. £10,000 is not a lot of money for an install of this size. How often do they want to use it? would hiring when required be more cost effective? If someone has said some Bose 802's would do the job, they are not really that knowledgable. Consider the second hand market. The money will go a lot further. I might suggest looking at something like Nexo PS15 tops with LS18 subs, they are good quality boxes that throw very well. You would probably do well to have some decking to put the stacks on. Height is you friend to keep inteligibility for the distance. Don't forget to include the amps and cables in your budget too.
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Couple of my observations. You say that they want lots of bass, but the examples you give are not bass heavy. By saying that you want it to be easily packed away, it would suggest that a ground stack system is going to have to be what yuo look for. £10,000 is not a lot of money for an install of this size. How often do they want to use it? would hiring when required be more cost effective? If someone has said some Bose 802's would do the job, they are not really that knowledgable. Consider the second hand market. The money will go a lot further. I might suggest looking at something like Nexo PS15 tops with LS18 subs, they are good quality boxes that throw very well. You would probably do well to have some decking to put the stacks on. Height is you friend to keep inteligibility for the distance. Don't forget to include the amps and cables in your budget too.

 

that is pretty much what they are after I will look at the second hand market. they don't know when they would use them but they said if the audio is very good for a cheap price they would be willing to use them quite a bit. they might be willing to look at hiring them I will ask them next time I see them. what amps do recomend for these speakers so I can get a price for them to look at?

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There may also be some scope to contact a local (wet) hire company who stocks one of the speaker systems you are interested in buying and do a trial run with some of their kit etc, and then see whether that sound is what you want - you may be surprised by the results, and they may have alternative suggestions. It also allows you to assess practicalities.
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As you say, this is not your area of expertise, so I think your first port of call has to be your nearest sound hire shops, i.e. the people who supply for your local fetes & small festivals, to see what they would suggest as a hire. (I see djw1981 has just beaten me to it on this one)

 

A problem you will meet on the BR is that to some people £10k would be a big spend, while to others it would be chicken-feed. Also, while some responders will have carefully read through your posts word-by-word, others may just throw in suggestions for stuff they like, regardless of whether it might be appropriate for your particular situation.

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As you say, this is not your area of expertise, so I think your first port of call has to be your nearest sound hire shops, i.e. the people who supply for your local fetes & small festivals, to see what they would suggest as a hire. (I see djw1981 has just beaten me to it on this one)

 

A problem you will meet on the BR is that to some people £10k would be a big spend, while to others it would be chicken-feed. Also, while some responders will have carefully read through your posts word-by-word, others may just throw in suggestions for stuff they like, regardless of whether it might be appropriate for your particular situation.

 

Thank you very much I will take note of the local hire shops to see if I can get the school a test hire.

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As well as your speakers, if you don't already have them, don't forget to also consider mixing desk, multicore, stagebox, mics, stands, DIs, cables, mains distro, cover for mix position, cable ramps etc, etc. That could easily wipe out half of your budget. Outdoor festivals / concerts are complex affairs.
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As well as your speakers, if you don't already have them, don't forget to also consider mixing desk, multicore, stagebox, mics, stands, DIs, cables, mains distro, cover for mix position, cable ramps etc, etc. That could easily wipe out half of your budget. Outdoor festivals / concerts are complex affairs.

 

the school has already a mixing desk, mics, cables and etc. they are only needing amps and speakers and speaker cables

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As a 50 year old AV technician with 30+ years experience in a school currently responsible specc'ing AV for a new build - if I was given £10k for the equivalent project I would be going to hire/installation company who can offer the best advice on what to get and how it fits the budget. I wouldn't risk £10k on advise from an internet forum (no offense guys ;) ) and end up with something that doesn't really do what we wanted and have to carry the responsibility of getting wrong without getting professional advice. Edited by sleah
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