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Issue converting .mov file to mp4


bishbosh

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Hi,

 

I am not a video expert so I am seeking some help from people who might know more. My expertise are with lighting, I have very little knowledge of video so I apologise if some of my questions seem fairly obvious.

 

My partner works for a firm that has started putting video content on their website. They have got three American camera ops to produce three videos in three states. Two of the videos work absolutely fine and have been converted to (as her company requested) MP4. The third they have had no end of trouble with.

 

They couldn't open the file in any of the playback programs they have or editing software such as Adobe premier. The only software that would give them anything was quick time which would give them the audio track but no visual content.

When seeking help from the cameraman she was told to use handbrake and other converting software to convert it from a .mov file into the desire mpeg4 file. This didn't work either as handbrake didn't recognise the file and failed to open it. She went back to the cameraman again and asked if he could convert it at his end to Mpeg4 as requested and she got a fairly blunt no and she was told she was using the wrong codec to decode the video. He claimed that as he had used a Sony camera and final cut pro it requires a different codec when being opened in other software. The file is 16gB so fairly hefty and he is refusing to send it again.

 

What I would like to know is.

 

Would the coding of the video affect the playback? - Surely if it has gone through editing software and converted to MPeg4 it should just play in programs such as VLC, Quicktime etc

Does the brand of camera effect the coding? I am assuming that each camera manufacturer has their own unique form and method (why not create a universal format if this is the case.... i.e. DMX/ Artnet)

If handbrake doesn't work is there another formatting software that is equally good at taking "random" files and formatting them into something recognisable?

If I manage to get my hands on a Mac with Final Cut what are the things I should watch out for if I try and convert the file? What should I ensure I do when I import the video file and export it; are there any common pitfalls that I will end up in?

Does it sound like the file has had an error in the transfer (via FTP on to the company server) which has caused it to fail?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

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.mov is just a container file, actually for various forms of MPEG4. In the past I've had problems opening .mov files from certain sources while others worked just fine.

 

My not-so-cheap solution (I was up against a deadline) was to buy Wondershare Video File Converter. It wasn't cheap but it let me open the file.

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Would the coding of the video affect the playback? - Surely if it has gone through editing software and converted to MP4 it should just play in programs such as VLC, Quicktime etc

 

As Bobbsy said, MOV is a container - part of the containers information contains what codec was used for both the video and audio tracks inside. The same with MP4 - it is also a container format- this gives an overview to just how many different codecs are supported within an MP4 container.

 

 

Does the brand of camera effect the coding? I am assuming that each camera manufacturer has their own unique form and method (why not create a universal format if this is the case.... i.e. DMX/ Artnet)

 

Yes - different cameras record in different formats. And generally they will record in a format that is not overly friendly to disk space.

 

(oversimplified) The "traditional" workflow in non-linear editing systems is that you ingest the media from the camera into a program like final cut or premier. The format that you are ingesting in (and that the camera records in) is often called the Acquisition Codec.The Acquisition Codec is designed to capture all the data from the cameras sensor in real time and generally not care too much about disk space (compression takes processing power, so is generally avoided). The problem is that this can mean that mere minutes (or even seconds if shooting high frame rate, high definition) of footage takes up gigabytes of space - which will kill most editing machines when you start to work with it as they can't fit the full file into memory and have to keep referring to the disk. Enter Intermediate Codecs - these are designed as a middle of the road type of deal. They compress a bit (whilst attempting to be fairly lossless) - basically you trade memory usage for CPU power. The editor can now load 2 or three clips simultaneously into the PC's RAM and work on it. These files are still big though... If you don't need to edit the file, you can apply more complex compression - this takes CPU power to calculate - and also generally looses a lot more data by doing things like "deleting" pixel data that has not changed from the frame before it. These are horrendous to edit in as the computer needs to read backwards until it has all the data it needs every time you jump in the time line - but are perfect when someone hits play at the beginning and watches from start to finish - which is why this final codec is often referred to as the Delivery Codec - this is your H.264 file or whatever. If you have ever jumped forward in a video using the bar at the bottom and had big bits of black for a second or two - that is because you have jumped to a point between keyframes (frames containing an entire picture) and the player has no data for the black pixels.

 

As far as "why isn't there a universal format?" primarily because compression algorithms are hugely complex devices - the companies that make them are the pharmaceutical companies of the PC world. Each company is trying to make a compression codec/algorithm that compresses the data more whilst loosing less (no) data and needing less processing to compress and decompress. Once they come up with that magic bullet, they plaster it in patents and charge licensing fees (1 codec may involve 20 or 30 different companies who hold patents over specific technologies used). If you want some juicy reading on it, look up HEVC Advanced's H.265 licensing debacle (where they wanted to charge content owners 0.5% of gross profits made from the distribution of anything encoded with H.265. DMX/ArtNet - really does not compare.

 

If handbrake doesn't work is there another formatting software that is equally good at taking "random" files and formatting them into something recognisable?

If I manage to get my hands on a Mac with Final Cut what are the things I should watch out for if I try and convert the file? What should I ensure I do when I import the video file and export it; are there any common pitfalls that I will end up in?

 

Use a preset in the export settings - something that exports to MP4 using H.264 with AAC or MP3 audio. Don't try and create your own.

 

Does it sound like the file has had an error in the transfer (via FTP on to the company server) which has caused it to fail?

 

Quicktime has a media inspector option in the view menu - VLC has media info and codec info in the tools menu - trying opening the file in both of these applications and playing them through - and then look at the information about the encoding. Compare it to the other files you have.

 

Corrupted bits could be an issue, but unlikely. Issues with the encoding is more likely - or just differences with how applications encode - we have a hardware device for example which does an H.264 encode which will only open on VLC or in editing apps - web based players, quicktime and windows media player all hate the file. No idea why... we just have to open the file in something and re-save every time we use the device. It is just a foible of how it writes the container I believe.

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Hi everyone thanks for your replies.

 

 

Mac cheers for all the information. Lots to digest and try to understand.

 

Roderick, Yes I have tried VLC it was my first port of call. I didn't know that you could inspect the video information from it though so will inspect the information and see what it can give me.

 

Nikki, I will give it a go and see what it comes up with once I have understood all the other information and found out the information from VLC.

 

Alistair I will try that software and see what happens. Anything is worth a try.

 

Stuart yes we have tried Handbrake before on a different computer but I am currently downloading on to my one to have a go and see if there was anything missed such as check boxes etc (best to double check others work with issues like this). When used before it only gave the audio tracks and not the video content. So it shows that there is data in the files and it requires the video codec sorting.

 

 

Fail safe is that it goes back into Final Cut (have found a friend who has the software) and we will try again from there.

 

Cheers Everyone.

 

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Hi,

 

From reading around and using the information and the tips given.......

 

I used VLC to confirm that it was encoded as an XALG. After a bit of digging I came across this post which explained that unless you have final cut or the original un-imported footage you can't do anything with it. Seems that the love-in that Sony and Apple have at import stops anything else from access the video. It will allow the audio to be accessed but not the video content.

 

So will catch up with a friend for coffee and see where I get with using Final Cut and an Apple.

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  • 5 weeks later...

The missing point here is that professional video does not follow the same principals as simply flinging a file into a converter and hoping for the best.

 

Professional broadcast quality cameras record in their own (often interesting) proprietary formats and the workflow is extremely important. Generally the cameras card must be offloaded in full to an external hard drive and then software such as Final Cut is used to ingest the footage correctly using the exact folder structure that the camera's card produced.

 

Generally each manufacturer provides a plugin for video editing software so that the files can be recognised and then ingested.

 

It is unfortunate that the cameraman/production company here has been so unhelpful, but (without making generalisations), normally with camera operators and DOPs, the responsibility ends at rolling and stopping the camera.

 

Good luck with your friend who has FC, if you get nowhere, drop me a PM and I'd be happy to assist with your file.

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