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Fat Frog vs Jands 250 vs JesterML48


GmanSparkey

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Hi guru's,

I need to upgrade from a trusty and immensely versatile but now outdated Alcora24 to allow control of LED/tungsten/fixtures from a single surface. The application is mainly Am-Dram theatre work (scenes, a few sequences and occasional use of movers) and more significantly busking folk/rock/dance live gigs for a local music group in village hall and barn venues (20 x RGB PARs, 6 moving heads, blinders, 4 effects fixtures).

Single universe is fine, must-haves are ability to create diverse colour and chases with beat-tap in real-time when busking unfamiliar music. I run Dream Solutions LightFactory on the PC with some Enttec wings when I have to but hate the endless hours of trial-and-error programming, no one enjoys operating this software either. I have a Frog 48 channel as backup but don't use it often as it is not great with fixtures. Budget is about GBP300

 

1) Fat Frog: cheap at the moment, easy to maintain in the UK, 12 fixtures should be fine, plenty of controls for busking without too much paging, beat-tap helps.

 

2) Jands Hog 250: Possibly too old in design to make sense now, floppy based backup, pre-USB

 

3) Jester ML48: Looks light on surface controls or may rely on paging to reach effects. 30 fixtures is more than enough. Quite a wide desk for the space we have though. Sub/Mem/Palette naming useful, DMX record too. Beat tap looks better than Fat Frog. USB memory looks a better option to the Frog floppies and the Phantom Jester is appealing.

 

With all these I guess the issue is whether there is library support for the evolution of Chinese movers and fixtures which we have to depend on at our budget...

 

Any guidance or personal preference out there? The Jester looks like the logical choice but all input appreciated

 

Cheers

Gman

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Hi Gman,

 

I'll comment on the Fat Frog and Jester ML48 consoles only, as I have little knowledge on the Jands 250.

 

You will probably struggle to get a second hand Jester ML48 for £300 on eBay and similar places, as these have only been discontinued in the past couple of years.

 

The Fat Frog and the Jester consoles both can use a simplified version of our current fixture library that is regularly updated, and so obtaining the latest fixture files won't be an issue. The tools are also available on our website, should you need to make the profiles yourself, and if you drop us an email we can make these for you.

 

With the Fat Frog (or Leap Frog for 24 fixtures if you can get yours hands on one), you'd probably want to convert it to USB if it hasn't already. This is possible using USB Floppy Disk emulators - there are many threads on this forum about this, but you can always drop us an email to support@zero88.com for more information. If you wouldn't plan on keeping your Alcora, depending on the condition you should be able to get at least £50 for it on eBay and similar places, which you could use to buy an emulator. USB allows for easy file transfer from PC to console for show files and fixture files. This is also useful to use in conjunction with Phantom Frog software for PC.

The Fat Frog may also be a sensible route to go down, if you already know your way around the standard Frog console.

 

You mentioned naming memories, submasters and palettes, this is something you can also do on the old Frogs using the F2 key, and a PS2 style keyboard.

 

I'm guessing as you say 12 fixtures should be fine, that you would plan to control the LED fixtures from the channel faders, rather than fixture keys?

 

Hope these comments are helpful, if you have any Zero 88 specific questions, feel free to post them on the Zero 88 forum.

 

Edward

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I'm guessing as you say 12 fixtures should be fine, that you would plan to control the LED fixtures from the channel faders, rather than fixture keys?

 

Unless you've got movers that would make fuller use of the capabilities of the fixtures section (and would be generally impractical to use via channel faders), it would be worth considering the Fat/Leap Frog fixture section even if you "just" have some non-mover LED PARs. By doing so you can exploit the colour and beamshape [for strobe] palettes which you wouldn't have if you used the "generics" channel faders on the main part of the desk. It all depends on whether you already have 24 (48 in wide) channels of generics -> in which case your LEDs will have to go on the fixtures section, or whether you have 12 "more complex" fixtures that are better served by the colour/beamshape/position capabilities in the fixture section -> if not then the LEDs might well be better in the fixture section. By putting the LEDs in the generics section you will of course eat up one fader per LED fixture DMX channel, and given that even an absolute basic LED PAR will have R+G+B+Strobe+Colour Presets+Dimmer (probably), you would soon eat up the channel faders with a small number of LED fixtures. You don't have a (practical) DMX channel limitation for the fixtures section, so even a budget LED mover which might take 20 DMX addresses is still only one fixture.

 

In my days of Fat Frog (before I moved over to FLX), I used the faders for generics and the fixture section for my LEDs (at that stage I only had non-mover LED PARs and similar).

 

One aspect you might prefer with Fat Frog over Jester (and Alcora), is there is no "programming mode" and "run mode" that you have to keep hopping between. You also have dedicated submasters (with the consequent larger desk footprint). Even though Jester is a newer range than the Frog range, I'd argue the Frogs are still slightly higher up the "professional" ladder than the Jesters. YMMV!

 

Regards,

Kevin

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Edward, Kevin,

 

Many thanks for your quick reply, sorry for the delay in acknowledging - the day job really does get in the way and I must give it up sometime :-)

 

 

Great feedback, I will view the Frogs in anew light and actually their form-factor is more suitable for me.

 

@Edward: Great news that the fixture library lives on, the USB option could be useful too.

 

@Kevin: Our RGB PARs are not even as posh as you imagine, my aging PULSE PAR56's are simple 3 channel DMX which makes them really efficient on the desk. Our more recent Chinese Crees are 4 channel minimum but can be bodged to be 3 Channel RGB with a single common fader sacrificed to be the dimmer control for all of them (always left @ 100%) with a bit of repatching. So, I plan to use the channel faders for those and macro the fixtures onto the fixture subs.

I think the live switch for programming/run is the clincher.

 

I will trawl the market for a Fat Frog, a leap Frog if I can find one.

 

Many thanks, just the guidance I was looking for from the BR community.

 

Gman

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