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Replicating a Steam Train


Dj Dunc

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Hi all

 

As some have may seen on my recent topic I’m currently working on a project involving the original Murder on the Orient Express 2017 film set.

 

The client would like to have the ability to simulate the train “at rest” in the station where it is located. I have suggested we need to look at two machines primarily.

The first unit will be located under the main stack & pressure release unit to handle “blasts” vertically, with a second unit lower under the train piped into the steam overflow pipes.

 

I’m open to any advice on suggestions as to best current suppliers of equipment as many local companies don’t have any machines to hire to do some testing with unfortunately.

 

EDIT2ADD:

 

We have 1ph power on the loco, located both in the boiler around in the cab / coal bunker area, I suspect on a 20 or 30A feed from the main train distro so power, whilst limited isn’t an issue inherently. Control will be wired for remote and timer, potentially some form of show control for evening events.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Duncan.

Edited by Dj Dunc
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Hi all

 

As some have may seen on my recent topic I'm currently working on a project involving the original Murder on the Orient Express 2017 film set.

 

The client would like to have the ability to simulate the train "at rest" in the station where it is located. I have suggested we need to look at two machines primarily.

The first unit will be located under the main stack & pressure release unit to handle "blasts" vertically, with a second unit lower under the train piped into the steam overflow pipes.

 

I'm open to any advice on suggestions as to best current suppliers of equipment as many local companies don't have any machines to hire to do some testing with unfortunately.

 

EDIT2ADD:

 

We have 1ph power on the loco, located both in the boiler around in the cab / coal bunker area, I suspect on a 20 or 30A feed from the main train distro so power, whilst limited isn't an issue inherently. Control will be wired for remote and timer, potentially some form of show control for evening events.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Duncan.

How about smoke machine filling a vessel and a jet of pressurised air blowing through it to push bursts of smoke out.Reading again, at rest would there be any significant blasts?

Edited by sunray
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You might have a constant slow blow from the blower valve (used to maintain airflow over the fire while static), and maybe some short blasts from lower down if clearing draincocks etc. but the 'chuff' of the exhaust will only happen if the cylinders are moving.

 

Of course, as with all theatre - are you being realistic or are invoking a heightened reality?

Edited by J Pearce
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We had to do this on a film many years ago - a train at rest still spurts steam out from underneath (pressure release valves - the boiler is running at the same power whether the train is moving or not) and some smoke/steam comes out of the chimney.

 

This is going to age the project I did massively but we used 2 Jem Foggers - one under the train and one strapped to the rear of the chimney both on timers left to do their own thing. To the OP I would suggest any equivelent Jem-Martin smoke units with a simple DMX control to trigger and a fast dispersing smoke fluid will be all that you need.

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a train at rest still spurts steam out from underneath (pressure release valves - the boiler is running at the same power whether the train is moving or not) and some smoke/steam comes out of the chimney.

 

The pressure release valves tend to be on the top (bottom of the boiler is full of liquid), and yes will often spurt high pressure steam at intervals. Down below you have draincocks (to be opened and flushed with steam before moving, having condensed incompressible water in the cylinders is not good), steam heating lines, water injectors (will spurt steam when starting), and possibly other steam driven accessories (generators/brake pumps if air braked etc.). The steam out of the chimney is from the blower valve, a constant run of fairly high pressure steam.

 

 

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having been involved in railway preservation for over 50 years lets get a few terms right, the valves mounted on top of the boiler are safety valves usually 2, these are set to release steam when the boiler reaches a certain pressure. the blow down valves or draincocks are mounted underneath the cylinders at the front of the loco and as already stated are used to blow condensed water out of the cylinders. there are also overflow pipes mounted usually below the cab these are part of the live steam injector system which is used to pump cold water in to the boiler. the blower is used to increase the air flow over the fire by pushing steam up the chimney which pulls hot air through the boiler tubes

now when a steam loco is standing in a station it is extremely bad practice to allow the steam pressure to build so the safety valves lift, the fireman who is in charge of boiler management could be fined or docked wages for allowing this to happen. To control this, before entering the station the fireman would close the firebox dampers cutting off air to the fire and using the injectors to add cold water to the boiler, just before leaving the station he would open the dampers and use the the blower to increase airflow over the fire.

so what has the above got to do with the original question probable very little but its nice to get the terminology right.

I was chief mechanical engineer for the arena tour ot Thomas and friends big live tour which toured the UK between 2002-06 and also did a 3 month sit down in Tokyo this is the best footage I can find of the show online

we replicated steam and smoke using smoke machines and CO2 the smoke machine was mounted just below the chimney and a CO2 line was placed in front of it pointing up the chimney the smoke machine was set to a slow trickle and the CO2 was synchronized to the wheels to give a blast each time the wheels revolved , there was an an override system which allowed the driver to trigger more smoke or CO2 as required.

steam from the cylinders used just CO2, we found that large fire extinguishers worked best. The nozzle was removed and a pipe fitted which ran from the cab to the front of the loco with a Y split to send it to both sides.

All the fitting where straight off the shelf from a plumbing suppliers the only complicated bit was the syncing the wheel revolutions and the smoke This was done using a timer and electronic valve system.

Am I right in assuming the Loco in question is at Bassenthwaite station.

Cheers

Colin Green CME isle of Sodor Railway

Edited by Deep C
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Colin has it on the money. It is the one at Bassenthwaite Station. Here is a video of the installation for those wanting an idea of whats occuring.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAQ7cEMVmPc

 

Kerry, I wasn't suggesting real steam, more how to imitate it safely over the course of a day, with certain effects for special occasions or timed segments. This is more leaning towards "theme park" & installation rather than sorter duration shows, as this will be a cafe open to the public throughout the day. (Approx 20 tables inside the station, 20 tables on the train I think.)

 

Essentially we've covered all the lighting on the train and changed it across to LED whilst maintaining the original orient express film vibe. We're wanting to add a bit more theatre for the daytime where lighting on the train is ineffective.

 

I've been directly out of industry for a couple of years so not really sure what equipment suppliers are out there that are reliable these days, both in machines and aftersales.

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Hi

Right the Loco? prop? in question was tested at my local steam preservation line the GCR and I have talked to a couple of the volunteers who were present while the film crew worked through there snagging list. And although they were not allowed to close the the loco they are pretty certain that some of the external and internal pipe work was plumbed up for steam and smoke affects.May be worth a look.

As for smoke machines maybe hire a couple first to test them out before buying them also may be worth using different fluids for different effects.If it is planned to be used multi times a day every day I would not do down the the CO2 route as on the Thomas show we used 1 cylinder per loco (4 locos) every show day (3 shows per day) and 1 fire extinguisher per loco per show. The cost soon mounts. Using DMX controlled fans would seem to be the better choice.

Also are you adding any Audio FX to the experience as nothing replicates the sound of high pressure steam being released except the real thing, so a speaker mounted next to the cylinders with sound of high pressure steam being released along with a smoke effect would help to sell the effect. Also other sounds, carriage doors being slammed, station announcements (all in French) coal being shoveled into the fire box, will all help to sell the overall ambiance.

Any way good luck and if you need any more help let me know I will also pay you a visit when its up and running

 

Cheers

Colin

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A steam loco at rest should emit very little steam.

The safety valves located atop the boiler will open when the steam pressure becomes excessive. A good fireman will reduce the rate of stoking, so as to avoid this which wastes considerable fuel and water.

If, on the other hand, the fire be low and in need of urging, then the blower is turned on, this uses steam jets to draw more air through the fire. Use is minimised to save water and fuel.

Before starting of, the cylinder drain are opened, this produces clouds of steam at low level, but only when starting.

Most locomotives can supply steam to the train for heating, some leaks are likely from the connection between rear of tender and the first coach.

 

It is well worth viewing youtube for steam engines.

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It's probably a sensible plan to consider the power consumption sooner rather than later, all my old smokers used lots of power 750 - 1500 watts continuous would be quite moderate. Big smokers usually consumed much more electricity.

 

I got caught out by this quite badly once. On many models, the power draw isn't continuous, instead consumption peaks just after a burst of smoke, as the heating block needs to get back up to temperature. There's enough of a lag that it might not be immediately obvious why the breaker is tripping.

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