Fresnel Lenses for Strand Patt 23 - anyone got a source?

[GruntPuppy]

Hello! This is my first post on Blue Room, so please, please be gentle...

 

I'm about to start restoring a somewhat shabby Strand Patt 23, and want a wider light throw from it - so I'm looking for a Fresnel lens for it - either new or used. I've been checking eBay, and they just don't come up (or they're hiding from me).

 

Just to clarify, I'm going to use it as a lamp for myself. Before anyone gets too "you're one of the polish it for a loft mob aren't you" - I'm not. I intend to be as sympathetic as possible - there will be powercoating or hammered paint finish applied, I won't be butchering a theodolite tripod to shove it on either. I need a project to keep my hands and brain working, as a wonderful combination of Arthritis and M.E. have got me generally confined to sitting on my arse. I just like lights, is all.

 

This is the last lamp I made - out of a rather neglect petrol blow lamp. Please note that the bulb holder hasn't simply been rammed in one end of the burn tube with a flex coming out of the other, also please note that the pressure pump mechanism has been converted to hide an on/off switch (using the original piston arm knob to totally hide it) and that the cabling has been totally hidden to make it look as "original" as possible. I also sourced vintage style braided cover mains cable and a period bakelite plug for it. The black shiny bits were hand painted with black enamel to match what would have been as close as I could come to the original finish.

 

Please pardon the slightly heavy breathing in the vid, I also have other illnesses that sometimes leave me in a lot of pain, but eh...

 

https://youtu.be/nxRrW_6JBXg

 

But anyway - if anyone can point me in the direction of a source for a fresnel lens for a Patt 23, I would be very grateful - thank you.

[alistermorton]

Fresnel lenses for Pattern 23 lanterns aren't common because pattern 23F lanterns were less common - most variants (23N/23/23W) had plano-convex lenses. The Patt 23W had a wider throw but again, less common.

 

I don't think the fresnel from a minim would fit a Patt23 lens tube, or how well it could be made work. It's a 5" inch diameter lens tube IIRC, but the minim lens is 80mm.

[sunray]

Fresnel lenses for Pattern 23 lanterns aren't common because pattern 23F lanterns were less common - most variants (23N/23/23W) had plano-convex lenses. The Patt 23W had a wider throw but again, less common.

 

I don't think the fresnel from a minim would fit a Patt23 lens tube, or how well it could be made work. It's a 5" inch diameter lens tube IIRC, but the minim lens is 80mm.

I'd doubt the patt 23 is 5". I have 6" in mind for patt 123 and 4.5" for patt45, my guess is 3.5" for patt23. I have a couple of 45's in a sorry state if parts are of use.

 

[GruntPuppy]

Fresnel lenses for Pattern 23 lanterns aren't common because pattern 23F lanterns were less common - most variants (23N/23/23W) had plano-convex lenses. The Patt 23W had a wider throw but again, less common.

 

I don't think the fresnel from a minim would fit a Patt23 lens tube, or how well it could be made work. It's a 5" inch diameter lens tube IIRC, but the minim lens is 80mm.

 

Hi Alister, thanks for the info. I did find some information that may be useful elsewhere after reading your post. There is mention of fitting another lens into the 23 to make it a 23w - http://www.strandlighting.co.uk/Patt23/ - and this has been confirmed by another another post on this forum confirming this hack is doable :) I wanted a decently wide light throw, and the hack to take it out to 37 degrees this way is better than a Fresnel lens would do as well.

 

Fresnel lenses for Pattern 23 lanterns aren't common because pattern 23F lanterns were less common - most variants (23N/23/23W) had plano-convex lenses. The Patt 23W had a wider throw but again, less common.

 

I don't think the fresnel from a minim would fit a Patt23 lens tube, or how well it could be made work. It's a 5" inch diameter lens tube IIRC, but the minim lens is 80mm.

I'd doubt the patt 23 is 5". I have 6" in mind for patt 123 and 4.5" for patt45, my guess is 3.5" for patt23. I have a couple of 45's in a sorry state if parts are of use.

 

 

Hello Sunray, thanks for the reply. I think I've got it cracked now, but that's a kind offer. I may have to be in touch at a later date, because having just looked up the Patt 45, I think they too are rather wonderful lamps!

[DrV]

I've nothing to offer on the Strand front but I absolutely _love_ the blowlamp. Nice job

Dave

[vinntec]

I have a couple of 45's in a sorry state if parts are of use.

Those things were the work of the devil!

 

 

[GruntPuppy]

I've nothing to offer on the Strand front but I absolutely _love_ the blowlamp. Nice job

Dave

 

Thank you! I hate the bodge jobs I see on eBay all the time, and made the decision NEVER to lower my standards with regards to anything I do that involves electrics.

 

The earth point was a right barsteward though...

 

I have a couple of 45's in a sorry state if parts are of use.

Those things were the work of the devil!

 

 

 

Ok, I'm now monstrously curious. What's bad about the Patt 45's? They don't have the gorgeous swoopy lines of the 23 or 123, but there's a certain charm about them...

[Junior8]

They are simply a box with a lamp in, no reflector. Even worse they were available with a 250W lamp. The Furse JFR was their version of the same low cost device.

 

As for your project if you can't source a Strand lens I'm pretty sure the lens in a Furse SPR is identical.

 

I don't think I ever saw a Patt23F in captivity.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Junior8

[alistermorton]

The 5" came from a spec sheet. It may be the size of the larger N lenses.

 

Edit: thinking about it, I fitted the fire flicker mechanism meant for a Patt.123 onto a Patt.23N so the feont ends are similar in size.

Edited October 28, 2020 by alistermorton

[xllx]

There are 3 variants of Patt 23 that use the standard lens tube which has two lens positions:

 

Patt 23 uses a 3 1/2" x 5" lens in the front, and a spill ring at the back.

 

Patt 23W uses a 3 1/2" x 5" lens in the front, and another 3 1/2" x 5" lens at the back.

 

Patt 23F uses a 3 1/2" x 4" Fresnel lens at the front, and a spill ring at the back.

 

I used to work occasionally for an LD that had a box of spre lenses, it wasn't uncommon to have to add the second lens into the lens tube at the top of a Tallescope to gain a little extra spread!

 

I can't think of a common fresnel with a 3 1/2" lens, minuette and acclaim are both 4 1/2" I think, and they are the smallest generlly avilable.

[marktownend]

I see the OP may have this sorted, but if it's of help to anyone else I believe Jamie Shurlock may have some 23Fs.

 

With regard to the blow torch, I vote for leaving the flickering lamp in it. And I've got a couple of almost identical blow torches ready for restoration if anyone's interested. Except they're not in the same sort of condition, more like something that could have been raised from a Spanish galleon, they're rather rusty!

[GruntPuppy]

I see the OP may have this sorted, but if it's of help to anyone else I believe Jamie Shurlock may have some 23Fs.

 

With regard to the blow torch, I vote for leaving the flickering lamp in it. And I've got a couple of almost identical blow torches ready for restoration if anyone's interested. Except they're not in the same sort of condition, more like something that could have been raised from a Spanish galleon, they're rather rusty!

 

Well that lamp didn't start off looking nice - I had to strip and refinish ALL the ferrous, which was a right bugger to do :) All the polishing was by hand as well. Patience is the key, and lots of wet and dry (for the ferrous at least). And drying off ferrous parts in the oven after working on them with wet ;)

 

There are 3 variants of Patt 23 that use the standard lens tube which has two lens positions:

 

Patt 23 uses a 3 1/2" x 5" lens in the front, and a spill ring at the back.

 

Patt 23W uses a 3 1/2" x 5" lens in the front, and another 3 1/2" x 5" lens at the back.

 

Patt 23F uses a 3 1/2" x 4" Fresnel lens at the front, and a spill ring at the back.

 

I used to work occasionally for an LD that had a box of spre lenses, it wasn't uncommon to have to add the second lens into the lens tube at the top of a Tallescope to gain a little extra spread!

 

I can't think of a common fresnel with a 3 1/2" lens, minuette and acclaim are both 4 1/2" I think, and they are the smallest generlly avilable.

 

I'll be ditching the spread ring and fitting a second lens there to get the 37 degree spread, it's basically what the factory did to "make" the W. At some point, being a right curious bugger, I'd like to try a fresnel at the front AND an additional lense in the spill ring position.

 

The 5" came from a spec sheet. It may be the size of the larger N lenses.

 

Edit: thinking about it, I fitted the fire flicker mechanism meant for a Patt.123 onto a Patt.23N so the feont ends are similar in size.

 

Did you say FIRE FLICKER MECHANISM?!

 

Dammit, I must find one!

 

Something tells me that could take enough time to let me finish the Patt 23 conversion, and maybe the 123 I want to do next as well!

[sunray]

The 5" came from a spec sheet. It may be the size of the larger N lenses.

 

Edit: thinking about it, I fitted the fire flicker mechanism meant for a Patt.123 onto a Patt.23N so the feont ends are similar in size.

I think I may have missed something earlier.

I'm a very long way off being an expert on stage lighting, until about 10 years ago AFAIC there were only P23MK1 & MK2 options.

I take it the 23N is the version with the conical lens tube and mounting position moved forwards.

It makes sense they would use the same gel frame from another fitting rather than yet another size.

Edited October 29, 2020 by sunray

[alistermorton]

I take it the 23N is the version with the conical lens tube and mounting position moved forwards.

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

In case anyone was wondering why we had a fire effect wheel on a profile, we were projecting a train window gobo and wanted to make it flicker as if the train was moving, so the fire effect wheel was pressed into service, without its split colour gel or frosted glass diffusion. With the window focussed fairly hard, it worked really well.

 

 

 

[GruntPuppy]

Well my issue of getting a wider angle light throw has been solved - the 23w retro fit of a second lens should give me 37 degrees. But I have learned enough to learn that there is SO MUCH MORE TO LEARN!

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

Incidentally, have any of you ever seen a 23h?