revbobuk Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Got an event coming up next year where I will need to run a main speaker array, plus some remote repeaters. The repeaters are about 120m from the main area, but it would be seriously problematic to run cable through what will be quite a high traffic area. So I'm thinking of radio links. The fancy Neutrik is way outside my budget, but the Alto Stealth would be manageable - anyone used this? Or would I be better off with in-ear kit? Are the LD systems MEI 100 any good for this? Would they have the range? Are there other solutions that would work better - I'm just dubious of UHF frequencies being reliable at such low power and with people in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Even with a decent antenna each end 120m isn't going to be remotely bullet proof. With a directional antenna each end the link will probably be OK, but risky given that every DJ has a radio mic to travel the 2ft the the mixer, and depending on where and when, a big PA through a radio system using any of the common frequencies worries me. OFCOM will happily give you a site licence for a less common radio channel - the broadcasters use this facility all the time, but it's still radio, with all the unpleasant possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Hire a trencher? A couple of hundred would do it.Either leave the cable in or recover it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Even with a decent antenna each end 120m isn't going to be remotely bullet proof. With a directional antenna each end the link will probably be OK, but risky given that every DJ has a radio mic to travel the 2ft the the mixer, and depending on where and when, a big PA through a radio system using any of the common frequencies worries me. OFCOM will happily give you a site licence for a less common radio channel - the broadcasters use this facility all the time, but it's still radio, with all the unpleasant possibilities.I have done this quite often including 3 different channels on one job and so far I have not had any insurmountable problems. IEM with proper directional aerials ( NOT Senheiser paddles!) will probably be OK at this distance but I would be using at least 10 times the power (100mW) into the Yagi or more likely 100 times (1W). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I've used VHF radiomics over this sort of distance without the need for external aerials. But, do you actually need to transmit over this distance, or could you get the transmitter & receiver a bit nearer each other by using a bit of cabling at each end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 I've used VHF radiomics over this sort of distance without the need for external aerials. But, do you actually need to transmit over this distance, or could you get the transmitter & receiver a bit nearer each other by using a bit of cabling at each end?That looks to be possible - careful planning might mean I can halve the distance, or even better. This is all useful stuff, but I do wonder if anyone has used the Alto kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I've not used the Alto Stealth but it is in the 863-5 license free band. It is effectively an IEM but only 20KHz deviation although they claim 50-17KHz audio bandwidth. CPC used to do something similar which wasn't available for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbotsmike Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I was at an event last weekend where NRS were providing the audio kit and had something similar. A lintec 5 element yagi pointing at (near) 3 receiving sites with sennheiser Omni's on poles. I didn't see the transmit/receive, but can only assume it was an IEM transmitter or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I was at an event last weekend where NRS were providing the audio kit and had something similar. A lintec 5 element yagi pointing at 3 receiving sites with sennheiser Omni's on poles. I didn't see the transmit/receive, but can only assume it was an IEM transmitter or similar.Seems strange having a 5 element Yagi sending to 3 different sites then using omnies for RX. It depend on the beamwidth of the Yagi and the angular spread of the RX positions. But hey if it does the job then it's a good'n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 This discussion has been really helpful so far - particularly when connected to the other thread about the Denon DN-202 in a similar situation. I would have expected that the lower frequency should mean longer range and better drop-out performance, but I guess the Wi-Fi chipsets might be more sophisticated when it comes to data loss. And I was surprised by the aerial configuration too - surely directional aerials on the receivers and an omni on the transmitter are the obvious way to go?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 This discussion has been really helpful so far - particularly when connected to the other thread about the <a href='http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=72859' class='bbc_url' title=''>Denon DN-202</a> in a similar situation. I would have expected that the lower frequency should mean longer range and better drop-out performance, but I guess the Wi-Fi chipsets might be more sophisticated when it comes to data loss. And I was surprised by the aerial configuration too - surely directional aerials on the receivers and an omni on the transmitter are the obvious way to go?!If I'm honest I think I steer towards UHF giving a better practical range for radio mics, which as you say goes against the grain.As to the aerial layout, the setup is not always obvious, on many occasions I have set-up then added extra and found the signal path is there. A 'decent' 5 ele Yagi 'should' have a fairly narrow beamwidth and as a TX I'd not plan to use it past about 10 to 15 degrees. The advantage of a Yagi on TX is the reduction of signal in the unwanted direction, allowing for using the same channel closer by. We did use 2 IEM's like this about 300m apart very successfully but added a dustbin lid as the reflector to improve the front to back ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Have had good results, with Sennheiser packs and paddle antennae BUT always with both up nice and high and maintaining line of sight. Decent RF signal strength at the RX even over this distance. Depending on the duration of the event, don't forget the battery levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LfxCal Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Hi everyone, New to the forum but jumping in here. I'm in the same boat as RevBobUK - I need to get from a commentary position, across a high traffic area to remote speakers at the top of the site, approx 120-130m. (100V line system).I'm trying to work out the best way to achieve this, the IEM suggestion isn't a bad one. I've also seen in some places, people have used VHF 2 way radio for this but making cables in order to do this, I don't think is very practical, nor likely to work and open the key on the radio. Currently, I'm down to the followingXLR Mic into Mixer Amp (Ch1) > out to speakers at the commentary point.Line out from the Mixer Amp into IEM (TX) to feed the remote speakers (currently phono to mini xlr maybe with an adapter between)Remote EndAmp, battery, 2 speakers I'm concerned the IEM won't TX enough to reach the receiver. I could bury the cable but it would need to be dug by hand and it's not the best of ground to work. Could anyone perhaps shed some light or help in a way that I can achieve what I need to?. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadingle Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just had a look at Handheld audio - they hire a 1w link system with license for £164 a day, or a 100mw system for £80. Might be worth giving them a call and talking through your needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I've also seen in some places, people have used VHF 2 way radio for this but making cables in order to do this, I don't think is very practical, nor likely to work and open the key on the radio. And this is a complete breach on all licence conditions. And handhelds are not rated for 100% transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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