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Drape inspection


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Hi,

 

We have a number of black cotton drapes at our college theatre, that were installed in 2001, when the theatre was built. The college has no record of their manufacture, warranty or service information. They are very tired and I'd like to replace them. However, the college will only shell out if I can justify it as an essential H&S concern. So I'm wondering the following:

 

- Assuming they were originally treated with a flame proofing agent, are they likely to have lost their flame retardancy by now? Is there a generally accepted 'shelf life' for flame proofing on stage drapes? As far as I know, they have never been cleaned.

- Can fabric be 'inspected' for flame retardancy, and if so who might I go to for this service? I am aware of companies like Gorts who can reproof drapes but does anyone actually inspect drapes for safety if they're not dedicated fire curtains? Might the local fire service come out and have a look?

 

Grateful for any advice

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If you have no record of their manufacture or warranty - do you know they are FR, and would your insurers agree? It's likely they are if they were part of a new build install, presumably either Stage Electrics or Northern Light from that era.

 

I used a similar argument to replace a full set of drapes at a previous school job. Be careful though, they may just remove the old ones and not give you new ones. Reproofing was a very similar cost to new drapes for basic plain black masking - probably more cost efficient on more specialist soft goods.

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Hi,

 

We have a number of black cotton drapes at our college theatre, that were installed in 2001, when the theatre was built. The college has no record of their manufacture, warranty or service information. They are very tired and I'd like to replace them. However, the college will only shell out if I can justify it as an essential H&S concern. So I'm wondering the following:

 

- Assuming they were originally treated with a flame proofing agent, are they likely to have lost their flame retardancy by now? Is there a generally accepted 'shelf life' for flame proofing on stage drapes? As far as I know, they have never been cleaned.

- Can fabric be 'inspected' for flame retardancy, and if so who might I go to for this service? I am aware of companies like Gorts who can reproof drapes but does anyone actually inspect drapes for safety if they're not dedicated fire curtains? Might the local fire service come out and have a look?

 

Grateful for any advice

 

Can you cut a piece out of a hem or similar to see if it burns? Not particularly scientific but might give you an indication of whether you need further inspection on them or not.

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Can you cut a piece out of a hem or similar to see if it burns? Not particularly scientific but might give you an indication of whether you need further inspection on them or not.

 

Nice thought, but sadly the finance bots need something on paper from a recognised body before they'll take any notice of an actual fire.

 

 

 

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Can you cut a piece out of a hem or similar to see if it burns? Not particularly scientific but might give you an indication of whether you need further inspection on them or not.

 

Back when a Fire Officer did come to inspect our venue from time to time, that's pretty much what he'd always do.

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Back when a Fire Officer did come to inspect our venue from time to time, that's pretty much what he'd always do.

When I was doing musicals in a council-run hall we had one who would arrive mob-handed 20 mins before curtain on the 1st night & apply his lighter to anything that caught his fancy.

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We once did the lighter test to a set for "South Pacific" that an amdram company brought in.We should have known better as it was ancient and very "flappy" canvas wise.Nobody expected it to fail but the bloody thing went up like a bonfire. I think we beat it out with riggers' gloves
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As the covid crisis bites and things have to be done on no budget, complaining that tabs look old might just be the start of an open-form performance area with no tabs. Currently be careful and balance your budget.

 

 

With cloth tabs, the fabric and be inherrently fire resistant, or durably fire retardant, or untreated not resistant.

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Nobody expected it to fail but the bloody thing went up like a bonfire.

 

A friend of mine had something similar happen to a backdrop a stroppy comedian brought for a show. Apparently it wrinkled up like a crisp packet in a campfire. The performer did not take it well, but didn't have a leg to stand on since they'd been quite short with the inspector and ignored their polite question about flammability.

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It’s a recurring problem in ireland that fire officers “can’t read” the french fire retardant certificates of tents and insist on doing an actual burn test to several parts of a tent / bigtop hours before an event is due to open.....

 

Amazingly they often have a relative who could translate the certificates into Gaelic just in time for the event to open at an only slightly unreasonable cost.

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You want new curtains because they're tired. To get them involves finding a legitimate Health and Safety concern, so their replacement cost can come out of a budget designed to increase safety in the college.

 

Is this a rather sad use of public money when a day spent with a cheap sprayer from B&Q and some flamebar would solve your 'public' problem?

 

You're using the system to get new drapes, and I do understand that, but we spend hours trying to prove to over zealous officials that things are safe, and this kind of process makes old tabs become some kind of really scary thing to have around.

 

I perfectly understand how college budgets work and the wangles that have to be done to get things - but I'm not sure H&S is promoted by these scare tactics to the gullible H&S department.

 

I've used the perfectly functional devious plan myself with the daft budget planning system colleges have, but as I'm out of education now, I can swap tacks and wonder a bit ............

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We have a number of black cotton drapes at our college theatre, that were installed in 2001...

 

Have you had a good look at them? Some drapes, even from the turn of the century (!), will have a sewn-in label with their details on.

 

Being relatively recently made they will be flame retardant in some way, the question is what method was used...

 

https://mcdougall.co.uk/flame-retardant-specifications/

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You want new curtains because they're tired. To get them involves finding a legitimate Health and Safety concern, so their replacement cost can come out of a budget designed to increase safety in the college.

 

Is this a rather sad use of public money when a day spent with a cheap sprayer from B&Q and some flamebar would solve your 'public' problem?

 

You're using the system to get new drapes, and I do understand that, but we spend hours trying to prove to over zealous officials that things are safe, and this kind of process makes old tabs become some kind of really scary thing to have around.

 

I perfectly understand how college budgets work and the wangles that have to be done to get things - but I'm not sure H&S is promoted by these scare tactics to the gullible H&S department.

 

I've used the perfectly functional devious plan myself with the daft budget planning system colleges have, but as I'm out of education now, I can swap tacks and wonder a bit ............

 

Its been some years but the issue I had was also the combined "getting it done" element. Is there money to send / take a bunch of weighted drapes to a cleaner who can accommodate them? I am sure there are some industrial laundry places gagging for the work, but is there the "budget" for that? There IS the budget to replace them.

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  • 1 month later...

You want new curtains because they're tired. To get them involves finding a legitimate Health and Safety concern, so their replacement cost can come out of a budget designed to increase safety in the college.

 

Is this a rather sad use of public money when a day spent with a cheap sprayer from B&Q and some flamebar would solve your 'public' problem?

 

You're using the system to get new drapes, and I do understand that, but we spend hours trying to prove to over zealous officials that things are safe, and this kind of process makes old tabs become some kind of really scary thing to have around.

 

I perfectly understand how college budgets work and the wangles that have to be done to get things - but I'm not sure H&S is promoted by these scare tactics to the gullible H&S department.

 

I've used the perfectly functional devious plan myself with the daft budget planning system colleges have, but as I'm out of education now, I can swap tacks and wonder a bit ............

 

Its been some years but the issue I had was also the combined "getting it done" element. Is there money to send / take a bunch of weighted drapes to a cleaner who can accommodate them? I am sure there are some industrial laundry places gagging for the work, but is there the "budget" for that? There IS the budget to replace them.

Have you looked at the cost of cleaning and reproofing stage drapes?

We had the crazy situation where the stage and drapes in a church hall were owned by the drama group and very well documented to the point that a hall booking expressly excluded their use, the Church insisted they were cleaned so the group took them down and transported them to a cleaner that could cope, a price was quoted and group couldn't afford it so put them into storage [someones garage]. They now get rehung for shows and removed after . They always so a match test in several places but sadly they always look terrible now being screwed up.

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