Big Top style Pop-Up Tent

[Stuart91]

A few years ago, I remember seeing a pop-up marquee at a Gala Day, which was the same style as a Big Top. It had a centre kingpin made out of some kind of truss, but some other bits of structure folded out. Eaves height was about 6ft, and I'd guess that the diameter must have been around 7 or 8 metres. (I had a 6x3m stage set up in one side of it)

 

I'd meant to find out some details, but didn't manage to get a note of the manufacturer on the day. We've lost contact with anyone involved with that event. Googling isn't turning up anything, since there are so many convention pop-up tents clogging the results.

 

We've got someone just now looking for a temporary structure, to allow for social distancing. The challenge is that it would need to go up and down on a weekly basis. (Their site sits on a busy road, so if any kind of tent is left up permanently it'll be vandalised in no time at all, or be used as a hideout for all kinds of illicit activities). They don't really have the people available to build any sort of conventional marquee, and had asked me about pop-up options. The usual things that we use for mix positions at outdoor gigs are far too small , but the conversation jogged my memory of that Big Top.

 

Has anyone come across anything similar, or know of a potential supplier?

[kerry davies]

I personally like Star Shelters which can be erected fairly quickly and easily by two relative numpties (me and a mate). There are lots of suppliers but HERE be a video.

 

What you describe is normally hired. To erect a circus style tent with sidewalls might be a bit too tricky for amateurs and would almost certainly take more bodies. Though you might try a PM to Imagineer Tom who knows a lot more about tents than me.

[Junior8]

I can't think of any standard product available for sale off the shelf that looks like a Big Top. City B used to have a few specials they'd made for bespoke jobs and then put into the hire stock. The closest that comes to mind is one of the Tectonics Multispan Range. Vitabri used to do a Medieval style standard square pop up which looks quite folksy. The star shade concept might do the job for you. However to get anything decent you are talking a lot of money and you would probably have to hire anyway since as Kerry pointed out the more complex temporary structures might be beyond amateurs. You will not get anything Chinese any good for 3/6 to do this sort of job.

 

Most of the suppliers I know of personally are listed on the Showmans Show website here - this would be a good place to start.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Junior8

[ImagineerTom]

Were you thinking of the megasol? http://www.gttrax.co.uk/events/megasol/ if so it's not cheep and you'd get just about any other tent method up in the same time with the same number of people and a lot less kit.

Every 18 months or so someone comes up with a "new" way of doing a tent with less people / time and after about a year they fade away to oblivion because they aren't actually solving a problem that anyone in the real world actually needs solving; especially not at the sort of prices involved in creating pop up mechanisms that actually last real world abuse.

 

TLDR - just go buy a regular clear span marquee (www.curlew.co.uk is the ebay of the marquee world) and get a second hand aluminium channel tent. You'll need someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to build it up / take it down but it'll only take a couple of cycles before you've learned all the skills needed and from then on a couple of people could set it up / pull it down in a couple of hours no problem. Even a small 3x3m pop up marquee needs 2 people to set it up.

 

DO NOT buy Gala Tent, or any Chinese made marquee or anything that uses round poles; they won't last 2 mins in the kind of high-cycle situation you're looking at.

 

Reminder - the event they are doing will need licensing; lots of different options here but all need them to start planning and producing paperwork now. Also if the marquee is up for more than 28 days across the whole year then it will need planning permission - that's not 28 day in one run but the total number of days the tent is up in total across the whole year, including technical or non-performance days; the covid regs allow some leeway on this but chances are if the field isn't already licenses for events then the new exemptions won't apply in this instance.

Edited April 3, 2021 by ImagineerTom

[Stuart91]

Were you thinking of the megasol?

 

Megasol looks familiar - I think I may have seen the photos before in some of the trade rags. I don't think it's what I saw at the event, though.

 

One crucial detail is there needs to be walls, more as a windbreak than anything else, which I suspect will rule out the Megasol and star shelters. Both look like great solutions for sunny days with the occasional shower. They wouldn't work quite as well in the typical Scottish weather of horizontal rain.

 

Every 18 months or so someone comes up with a "new" way of doing a tent with less people / time and after about a year they fade away to oblivion

 

It figures that's there's no free lunch - plenty people with have tried to improve things over the years. I'd imagine that, short of some breakthrough in materials science, there isn't going to be a drastic improvement on the established designs.

 

TLDR - just go buy a regular clear span marquee (www.curlew.co.uk is the ebay of the marquee world)

 

Curlews is a good shout - I've actually sold on the site before (but not marquees).

Didn't they call themselves "Marqueebay" when they started up?

 

You'll need someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to build it up / take it down but it'll only take a couple of cycles before you've learned all the skills needed and from then on a couple of people could set it up / pull it down in a couple of hours no problem.

 

There's plenty of volunteers on hand, but quite a compressed timescale because of the access to the site.

 

DO NOT buy Gala Tent, or any Chinese made marquee or anything that uses round poles; they won't last 2 mins in the kind of high-cycle situation you're looking at.

 

We use some Gala Tent products as basic stage covers or FOH positions. We don't dry-hire them, partly because of the potential for damage. Gala are by no means the worst, either, I've seen some truly terrible products.

 

One problem with many of the "party gazebo" designs is the amount of loose parts. I saw a tent collapse at a fairly high profile event, most of the bolts were missing, so the crew assembled it as best they could but the first decent gust of wind lifted the roof enough that the legs fell out from under it.

 

Pop-up designs still aren't particularly durable but at least they don't have as much that can get lost.

 

Reminder - the event they are doing will need licensing;

 

Good point. It's a council-backed project so hopefully OK on that front, but I'll get them to check just in case. It would be a shame if they left an opening for a NIMBY neighbour to scupper things.

 

The site itself is adjacent to an existing building, the plan is to use the marquee for additional space so that they can accommodate closer to their usual numbers despite social distancing.

 

It would be possible to have ancho points permanently in position (or water / concrete ballasts) so that it's just the structure itself going up.

 

 

The suggestion of the Showman's Show website was a good one. Alas, there's a depressingly high number of firms on their list that don't seem to have a website up any more. However, the closest match I can find to my vague recollections is LP Tent who do a pop-up hexagonal gazebo. I'm pretty sure it's not the exact unit I saw, as there's no centre pole, and they're also a bit on the small side. 6m diameter at 2m spacing doesn't give huge numbers, but it might be some use.

 

The tent I saw went up and down pretty quickly, in less time than it took me to get 8x staging decks unloaded and assembled, with just 2 or 3 people working on it. It may have been some bespoke model, but looked slick enough that I assumed it was a commercial product.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Stuart91

[xllx]

However, the closest match I can find to my vague recollections is LP Tent who do a pop-up hexagonal gazebo. I'm pretty sure it's not the exact unit I saw, as there's no centre pole, and they're also a bit on the small side. 6m diameter at 2m spacing doesn't give huge numbers, but it might be some use.

 

E-Z UP certainly used to do a hexagonal popup tent. No centre king pole though. I have a very old tired one, that gets wheeled out once a year for a summer party, last time was August 2019! I can't remember the exact dimensions, but it's a good 6m in diameter I should think.

 

E-Z UP are certainly more robust than a lot of the recent Chinese copies which seem to be made out of the thinest metal known to man. Their prices reflect this!

 

It can be put up by three people, but one on each leg and one in the middle is better. Less people means it doesn't go up cleanly, and fittings get stressed and a couple of parts on mine have been bent slightly. I suspect that any form of pop up won't be suitable, and as ever on the subject of tents, you take Imagineer Tom's advice.

[Junior8]

If you want off the shelf pop-up you won't do much better than the Tectonics Fast Frame and they do a 6x6 as well https://www.tectonic...cts/fast-frame/

 

All UK made. About the dearest but you get what you pay for.

 

I'd go with Tom though and look at a traditional frame marquee. However are you sure that there really are enough willing volunteers to make this work week after week especially in a wet spell? You didn't seem too sure in the OP. My experience is that even in the best regulated projects those willing to build up usually outnumber by an order of magnitude those willing to pull down. There is no sadder sight than the last man standing looking desolately at a pile of half dismantled bits and pieces in an empty field of a Sunday evening as the rain pours down. Unless you/the client can assemble a reliable team that will sign on for the whole season no question then there are some more pressing matters that need to be considered before you choose what kit to use. Nothing will work if everyone is starting from scratch every week. And that is before you think about storage...

 

This has hire written all over it to me...

 

Reminder - the event they are doing will need licensing; lots of different options here but all need them to start planning and producing paperwork now. Also if the marquee is up for more than 28 days across the whole year then it will need planning permission - that's not 28 day in one run but the total number of days the tent is up in total across the whole year, including technical or non-performance days; the covid regs allow some leeway on this but chances are if the field isn't already licenses for events then the new exemptions won't apply in this instance.

 

Just a note on 28 day permitted development rights for normal times. First for some types of event it is 14 days. Second the local authority can still call for a normal application the right is not automatic. Third the clock starts ticking the minute the first say tent hire lorry goes through the gate and ticks on until the last staffer has walked off. It is quite possible for a Saturday Flower Show to use up four or five days if the showman wants to pull on on Wednesday and the event happens over a BH weekend. Fourth some 'professional objector' will probably be counting.

 

I think there has been a consultation on doing away with the 28/14 day rule at least twice maybe three times since I started covering the trade in 1999.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Junior8

[ImagineerTom]

It would be possible to have ancho points permanently in position (or water / concrete ballasts) so that it's just the structure itself going up.

 

No, just no, one single 50cm stake into the ground will provide several times the rigidity than a one tone block of concrete or water ever will. You CANNOT safely hold a marque in place using ballast.

[Brian]

No, just no, one single 50cm stake into the ground will provide several times the rigidity than a one tone block of concrete or water ever will. You CANNOT safely hold a marque in place using ballast.

 

Indeed. Plug some numbers into this...

 

F = A x P x Cd

 

...and F gets big real quickly.

[Junior8]

Agree totally. No to water. No to concrete. There are excellent anchor devices for all surfaces available these days including spiral ones you can screw through tarmac. You don't have to have been in the outdoor sector very long to see the wind in an open sided structure just playing with concrete blocks as if they simply don't exist. Some of the water ballasts sold by some pop-up sellers are so poor they should be ashamed of themselves rather than making the very spurious claims that I have heard from time to time. Back in 2000 at Ocean Village Southampton I saw a box iron market stall 20x40 feet framed out with hanging rails loaded with fashion lifted up and moved three inches or so by a gust of wind that came seemingly from nowhere.

[Jivemaster]

I used to work at a Devon based festival that used marquees from a local hire company, the nice thing being that the hirer erected the tent and brought it down again with their own capable staff and drivers. Much more recently I worked on a wedding in a marquee -the hire company didn't want to remove the tent til they had a next booking for it.

 

Look for marquee hirers in your area and see what they can offer. Paying money for the skilled people marking it out and erecting it is well worth while.

[Stuart91]

Much more recently I worked on a wedding in a marquee -the hire company didn't want to remove the tent til they had a next booking for it.

 

I've had the opposite problem, where the marquee company removed the tent 12hrs earlier than agreed because they had another booking come in at the last minute.

 

Unhelpfully, this meant that a complete festival stage (deck, sound, light, backline, everything) was left sitting out in the open after they dismantled the tent round about it. They hadn't bothered to tell anyone, and arrived at the crack of dawn, so the festival staff only realised the problem when they awoke a few hours later to find the tent gone. A mad rush ensued to get everything down before the rain started.

 

 

 

 

It'd be lovely to get a marquee erected and dismantled each week, and I'm sure there's plenty of companies that would be grateful for the work. But there just isn't the budget for it, especially given the lower numbers that can be accommodated. It's essentially a community children's work project that want to get enough extra space to be able to cater for close to their usual numbers, without spilling into too many duplicate sessions. Having half a dozen people available for a few mins to pull out a hexagonal pop-up shouldn't be a problem. Establishing a trained crew that could spend a couple of hours putting up a clear span is much more of an ask.

 

All good points about the ballast - there's no reason why they couldn't get some spiral anchors into the ground. I've seen plenty companies using water ballast before, but typically that's in civic squares etc. where anchors would be prohibited.

 

I'll try and steer them towards some of the better pop-ups, and see if it's going to make sense. They may just have to run more duplicate sessions, or abandon the idea entirely.

[xllx]

I'll try and steer them towards some of the better pop-ups, and see if it's going to make sense.

 

I've bought several popups over the years, and you really do get what you paid for. This cannot be stressed too highly.

 

Are you committed to a hexagonal structure? Multiple square or rectangular ones might be a more flexible option.

 

Do not skimp on tie downs, those little weights on the legs do sod all, big spikes into the ground are the way to go.

 

After working on several festivals in proper structures, I've lost count of the number of times we've come on site in the morning to find the field scattered with broken cheap popups and gazebos usually belonging to the small traders. Boardmasters 2014 was particularly impressive :-)

[ImagineerTom]

Ok, if this is an extra cost directly related to covid there are LOADS of local authority grants and local business improvement chamber of commerce grants available for a few k specifically to fund covid specific extra costs.

 

Please don’t look at pop ups, even the best ones on the market are a fraction of the durability of an ali-channel marquee, and the best of those are a fraction of the durability of properly installed tensile structures (our tents are designed for regular 80mph gusts of wind). Get a grant, get a 9m second hand clearspan ali marquee, push comes to shove two people could take that down without any help at all, a group of volunteers for 20mins could do all the major parts of a takedown. Buying a pop up will be something you will quickly regret when it starts going wrong...

 

Xllx - we did the last year of GlassButterBeach- the year two storms hit destroying every structure on site and even taking the Wago’s stage out of comission; our structures stayed open and basically hosted the entire festival and even provided shelter for the huge number of campers whose tents ended up in the sea. That gig earned us a lot of respect and made me incredibly sceptical of almost every pop-up and consumer tent on the market because NONE of them survived.

Edited April 4, 2021 by ImagineerTom

[kerry davies]

This is probably a bit leftfield but why do they need extra space for added social distancing for school age children who sit in classrooms every day cheek by jowl without masks? Bear in mind that the government want to end lockdown and that most people in the UK are too stupid to wear masks you may just be solving problems that won't exist by the time of the event.

 

They just have to follow the same or similar guidelines to those given to schools and they should be OK. I may of course be completely wrong, nothing new there.