Flying a person from a helicopter

[paulears]

This video is on youtube.

 

It looks like a typical flying ring, but it appears to be flown before the person on it is clipped up, with a very long and thin safety, and even when she puts on hand in the wrist loops, she doesn't lower the strop to secure her wrist. The other she can't use because that needs another hand. She appears to get a bit tangled too - so if she slipped, there's a good chance a leg could do the cheese wire thing. The waist belt even if a proper one isn't suitable for hanging the amount of time it would take for the helicopter to descend to ground level - and even then, it would need to be a landing area where it could land and the crew rescue her, because I doubt she could release herself.

 

Having just spent 9 weeks with Foys checks, signing off and training I'm amazed the system in America allows this. Any thoughts?

[Charlotte_R]

I'm going to preface this by saying that my only knowledge of flying people is watching Foys from a distance; but I got the impression that the waist belt was a work restraint system meant to prevent someone falling off the rig in the first place rather than to catch them if they did?

[kerry davies]

We need to be careful when questioning this stunt. Erendira Wallenda is seventh and eighth generation aerialist of the Flying Vazquez family married to a seventh generation trapeze legend of the Flying Wallenda's. The only truly risky thing is if some idiot took the video as an instruction manual.

 

I think ImagineerTom is the only one of us who might be able to comment knowledgeably and he may even know the families personally. They are, like, well famous, innit.

[Ynot]

I just sent that link to my daughter, who's learning some hoop & silks and my niece who's teaching her...

 

Niece says "where do I find a copter" - daughter says "HELL NO!!"

 

:D :D :D

[david.elsbury]

I know it’s in America but I didn’t realise that the video would be upside down?!? I’ve been there and I was sure I was walking right way up ;)

 

Also, I’m not surprised to see that reaction from you, Kerry ;) but yeah, iTom will probably be along to tell us that we’ll never have the budget to do this stunt and he won’t allow us to do it either ;)

 

Impressive innit.

[ImagineerTom]

Circus stunts (which you have to remember are performed at least twice daily, 7 days a week) are designed to look dangerous but be, by definition, incredibly safe.

 

I know who the pilot is, I know who she is, I know the stunt was designed by a team who are recognised as the world experts at doing this, I can see the choices made with the moves she does to reduce the ones that are risky and give herself the most additional safety, I know what safety line she’s using and what harness it’s actually connected to and I know how many decades every person involved in this stunt has spent training to be able to do EXACTLY this sort of “”dangerous”” stunt again and again safely.

 

If you found the wallenda copter stunt scary then definitely don’t watch Bello doing his copter promo stunt

 

[bigclive]

Can I just mention that American powerline workers routinely long-line under helicopters to get from the job site to the tops of towers (pylons).

They also step from the top of towers onto the helicopter skids to transfer from tower to tower.

 

 

Transfering from 'copter to tower.

 

 

And perhaps one more. It's an interesting job.

 

[paulears]

How exactly do they prove the safety to people like the FAA, and the numerous safety organisations? It makes all the H&S training,rules, guidelines, codes of practice and risk assessments fail? Of course she's very skilled, extremely competent and entirely professional, but she could feint, get hit by a bird and get knocked off or loads of uncontrolled/unexpected events could happen. How do they pursuade the people in control it is safe?

 

If a flyman needs a full harness to go up a ladder into the grid - it's difficult to balance these two kinds of risks. The circus world seem to be able to meet all requirements in ways non-circus cannot? If there are ways of satisfying safety restrictions without OTT rules, we could all benefit?

 

I'm assuming in the helicopter example there are hidden safety features the video keeps secret?

[ImagineerTom]

Without wishing to make this sound like an insult - you’re assuming that your lack of knowledge is the same for all the people involved in planning / performing this stunt.

 

Without topping the gaff there’s absolutely no possibility she could free fall off that and the routines, shapes (and occasional repositioning) she does are making sure that at no point is the safety going to end up knotted should she fall.

The cooter could have her back on the ground in less than 30 seconds and by definition Arialists who spend their whole day being suspended in odd ways are much less susceptible to susnspwnion trauma / complications than bob the lamp ie who’s been on a one day harness course.

 

As to your fly man example... if the fly man spent 20 years training just how to climb THAT ladder, who practices (with safety ropes and crash mats) every single day, who has a gym routine and planned diet to make sure they are at the peek of fitness to do the climb and who are employed on a contract that expressly allows them to not climb the ladder (with no penalties) if they are ill / exhausted / injured then I’m pretty sure writing the RA To let them climb the ladder without a harness in the show would be very simple.

 

To address your other points - because of how helicopters work it’s basically impossible for bird strike, wind or anything else to affect the performer.

 

The biggest risk to the performer in that stunt would be death by pilot. For copter lifts the pilot has to be able to (easily) push a button to ditch the load he is lifting so that if at any point he feels the load is causing the copter to loose control he’s obligated to sever the lift (potentially killing the performer) to save the copter because if the copter crashes the explosion would kill dozens.

Edited January 21, 2020 by ImagineerTom

[kerry davies]

Paul, the RA they make is specific to them and their skills. The Wallendas never normally use nets or harnesses because they feel harnesses get in the way and cause their own risk. However when his sister made her comeback from a horrific fall Nik insisted she wore one and wore one himself to make her feel good about it. For him it was a walk in the park compared to his other world records but his RA said "wear one" so he did.

 

His sister said it all in the interview; "I thought after the accident I would be nervous but I stepped over that edge and I was "home". The wire is home to us." Her indoors has more trouble with flat surfaces than this entire family does on a one inch wire over the Grand Canyon. They are safer up there than my partner is in our bathroom.

[Seano]

Any thoughts?

 

Well I don't care what everyone else is saying I'm with you. Stunts shouldn't be allowed if they look dangerous, and circus performers should definitely be banned from doing anything that couldn't be done by an overweight 50 year-old electrician.

[Bryson]

I think people are misrepresenting Paul's questions here. I don't think he's claiming that the performer is reckless or doesn't know what they're doing - the question is, how do they get this cleared past the authorities? Generally "because I'm super awesome" isn't generally considered a reasonable control method, even if it is true. I mean, how does a H&S officer measure that?

 

This isn't just about the specific trick, it's about all circus-type performances. No-one here is suggesting that they shouldn't happen. They're curious about how you phrase that to the H&S people in a way that works for them.

[Brian]

They're curious about how you phrase that to the H&S people in a way that works for them.

 

I think the answer is probably that they don't. Or rather, the H&S person will be in-house and will understand the hazards and risks.

 

Same as in the UK. H&S is mostly self-managed, it's very rare that anyone 'official' ever turns up to check things.

[Bryson]

They're curious about how you phrase that to the H&S people in a way that works for them.

 

I think the answer is probably that they don't. Or rather, the H&S person will be in-house and will understand the hazards and risks.

 

Same as in the UK. H&S is mostly self-managed, it's very rare that anyone 'official' ever turns up to check things.

 

True, but should you have an issue, how do you ensure that you've covered yourself for when the "official" does show up? "We all knew it was fine" isn't going to help much once something unfortunate happens.

 

(I'm really just trying to extract some useful info from this thread...)

[bigclive]

Looking at that stunt I was under the impression that the lady was attached at all times by a wire system that was designed for the task, while being deliberately invisible to the eye of the unknowing. And I'd guess from the comments that it achieved it's role of making the perform look in danger. Because aerial work is all about the twist of danger.

 

I'd expect the team responsible to have mapped the area out with emergency performer landing points if anything went wrong.

 

But anyway. The stunt has apparently achieved its purpose of publicity....