Hi Guys - hope this is the right place to post..
I'm a touring, professional live sound engineer who knows nothing about digital recording and would dearly like some advice......
I would like to start recording shows to give bands the option of releasable quality live recordings.
I would need to simultaneously record a minimum of 18 channels (though 24 would be much better) from the direct outs from each mixing desk channel and then be able to rough mix them on my laptop in my hotel room/tour bus etc.....
I own a 12" 1GHz Powerbook and would like to mix with ProTools. I would need something portable and rack-mountable.
What do I need to get?
Would my laptop be capable of recording 18 or more channels?
Would I be better off with a hard-disk recorder like the Alesis HD24XR.
I don't have limitless funds but would be prepared to pay for the right set-up.
The simpler the better!!
All help, recommendations and advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks

Recording from the direct outs does work well - I do it quite often.

Would my laptop be capable of recording 18 or more channels?
most modern laptops won't have problems doing this - www.sospubs.co.uk - Sound on Sound have loads of articles on how to do this. Usual recommendation is to have a dedicated pc - or a separate windows partition that runs just audio, with no drive stealing components such as messenger, virus checker etc.

Would I be better off with a hard-disk recorder like the Alesis HD24XR
I have an alesis. In real terms, it is better - mainly because it isn't a computer - it does mean that you do end up transferring files to your pc for editing and mixing - I use SX3, mainly because that's what I've grown up with. Transferring the files is a real time consuming pain - the network method is like waiting at the post office - always in a queue. The firewire dock is better, but 24 tracks of a 40 minute set still take a very long time.

I don't have limitless funds but would be prepared to pay for the right set-up.

There are plenty of 24ch in/outs on the market now - most of them firewire, although usb2 is about too. In truth, I'm not really sure any more which way to go. Friends tell me that pc systems are now as good. I have a Soundscape system that can run 32 ins, I have hardware for 16 and this has never caused any snags at all in the studio - I just have this nagging doubt about the idea of pc's on the road. One slightly weird thing about the alesis is that it records in blocks of 8 - so if you have 17 inputs, you still record 24, with 7 blank tracks!

If I were you get a USB soundcard to start with an EDIROL for example or a M-Audio. I use numerous programs such as Steinburg Cubase SX3 and Neuendo. You may find it difficult however to record using a 1ghz processor. If possible I would advise you to buy a new proccessor or laptop with 1.8ghz or more.

As mentioned, the hardware exists.

I would choose to go the hardware recorder option though - they are designed to move. Or I would buy a 2ru computer (most 1ru pc's are not overly powerful or well built IMO), a firewire interface and a shockmounted case. You can buy drawers that will hold a tft monitor, keyboard and mouse - so about 6ru's of gear in a shockmount case should be safe enough to tour with.

Hardware recorder would be cheaper and more efficient in many ways.

Cuebase is a great program - I have never used protools, I have a PC, and on a PC it is supposedly crud.

The firewire dock is better, but 24 tracks of a 40 minute set still take a very long time.

Thanks for your input everyone.
I was definately considering the Alesis with the firewire dock, but I'd (obviously wongly) assumed that transfer rates would be quite fast.
How long is 'a very long time'?
Is USB2 faster than Firewire??


If possible I would advise you to buy a new proccessor or laptop with 1.8ghz or more.

Macintosh don't do 1.8GHz processors.
And I would never use Windows PCs - just the way I am!

I think I may have confused you - 24 tracks at 50M each via firewire isn't that much of a snag - it's using the network connection I meant - overnight was the way I did it before getting the firewire gizmo. Cubase is great, but for a MAC user (I've heard there are the odd one or two) Logic is better supported. As for protools on a PC - not at all an issue now.

Also when recording onto a laptop or PC bear in mind that recordings take up alot of space so check your hardisk has 5gb or more free space.

Also firewire is just as fast as USB2 but USB tends to be cheaper. As far as it goes for USB look at the Mackie Spike or the EDIROL equipment.

I personally would be more comfortable with the Harddisk / hardware recorder.
It's a dedicated recording unit and it is not trying to run windows or whatever like a computer is, along with the recording software. I'd have thought it'd be more stable. I've not had any problems with my HD Recorder.

The Mackie HDR24 is pretty cool in that you can connect a monitor, keyboard and mouse to the recorder and edit the audio without transferring to a computer (as I understand it).

But Alesis, Mackie, Tascam and Fostex all do them, and have their relative advantages and disadvantages - as one would expect.

I guess it depends on which way you prefer to work, as to whether you'd want a computer based system or a hardware system for the initial capturing.

Edit: With regard to USB vs Firewire, there's been a heated discussion over this one before in this forum somewhere.

Hey,

Maybe something along the lines of a Digi 002 Rack from DigiDesign? I have used this interface many times and it is superb! I don't know who mentioned the 5 gig of storage space... I would say nearer 60++ gig! Worth while investing in an external hard drive just to back everything up, and knowing you have enough room to play around if you need it!

There is also the Digi 002 which is the actual surface control (desk) if you wanted to go really hands on... have not used it personally but have heard good reports.

HTH,

Ben.

Hi,

I have a Mackie SDR which has been pretty rock solid (Although they no longer make them there are some secondhand ones knocking around) I was doing a gig on a dodgy power supply abroad when we blew the trip about an hour into the gig... The mackie rebooted and said "saving recording pass" and the take before the power cut was saved perfectly to the hard drive! You can buy cheap standard IDE drives for it and swap them into a firewire dock to transfer the audio.

Alternatively as you are running a powerbook I can recommend the Metric Halo Mobile I/O which can take up to 18 inputs. The recording software which comes with it is basic but rock solid in terms of stabililty


Cheers

I'm new to the recording part (via PC that is) and I have recently been looking at getting a HD24 which I could use for live recordings. When transferring to PC I understand there can be various speed issues. If I were to get 3 ADAT pci cards for my pc would that enable me to record 24 tracks at once in real time into a piece of software, thus meaning that a 1hour show could be transferred in 1 hour via ADAT?


Rob

If you use the adat interface, you're totally right - simultaneous real time transfer. I guess it is that we expect better than real time.

well yes, something faster than real time is certainly nice but the adat approach would surely be better than the network approach.

Another thought whilst I'm in gear. The hard drives you put in them. if they can be transferred to a PC would the pc be able to read the files direct? or are they in some other file type. or maybe the drive is formatted completely different.

just a random thought.


Rob

The Fostex records in WAV format, but the drive has different type of format to window's FAT or NTFS types.

Not sure about the other recorders, but I'd hazard a guess it was the same sort of issue

The alesis machines are very pc friendly and are happy to use pretty well any type of hard drive, and the files can be read by both pc and mac machines.