Just a quick one one to see what everyone prefers to be Q'd with?(generally speaking... no specific shows)

Maybe cans, maybe q-lights, maybe both, maybe none?

Ben.

Cans, hands down. Especially as 9/10 times I am the only one with knowledge of the equiptment, and if there is something wrong backstage and I am FOH boxed in by punters, I like to be able to talk someone through setting it back up correctly. If I was only a few meters from the SM or something like that, a cue light would be fine. That said, there are many times when a form of cueing is not needed.

I usually patch the audio from the cans into a spare channel on my desk so it runs through my monitor headphones (dongle from the chain out 3pin XLR, pins 1 and 3 to Tip and Sleeve respectively), and take audio from a lapel mic wired pins 1 and 2 on a 4 pin XLR. It has always worked a charm for me.

--edit since poll was added--

Whilst the pully/cattleprod idea is one I would like to implement when stagemanaging with certain ops (to be used in conjunction with a cans system), I have had to vote cans.

Added poll

I love cans. Although those who have been my crew might not! I tend to treat it as my own personal radio show, interspersed with cues...

The troubleshooting and feedback possibilities of cans are far superior, too. If you don't get a "ready" when using Q lights, you have no idea why not.

Depending on the Job - LX Cans everytime along with Followspots

Sound - Either but cans more useful if something is wrong

Stage - 1 or 2 sets for SM,s / Leading Crew and Head Flyman but defonatly cue lights for the rest of the crew. Especially on the fly floor and for truck moving etc.

Just my thoughts

Frankly, more often than not, it's a case of taking visual cues (unless, of course, it's the sort of cue where three things have to happen at once). Considering the number of "cues" the op does solo anyway (for example opening and closing RF mics, mixing between mics in a "love scene" to avoid comb filtering, flying in reverb and effects, etc etc.), getting cued for just sound effects seems a bit of an anachronism (albeit a very common one) to me.

However, for when things go wrong, cans and a good intercom system is essential!.

Bob

For sound I would say Cans there for problems and for the top of the show and second act etc. but for Sound Effects Q-Lights.

For Flys I normally like to have the head flyman on Cans and a Q-Lite (or two) for the rest of the flymen so I then as a DSM I will call it and Q-Lite it.

For LX Cans everytime, whats the point in usign Q-Lites at all for LX!!

Sam

Alot of the time sound seem to look after everything themselves, I can't remember the last time I put in either cans or a cue light for them.

A telephone (set to silent, of course!) is also a good move between prompt desk and LX box in case of emergencies or problems (that'll be me on panto last year when I dropped my cans and wrenched the cable out of the pack, so did the rest of the show over the phone!).

One show we had in some time ago cued me on both cans and cue light - I thought this was pretty pointless to start with, but with well over 200+ lx cues and a constant stream of sound & fly cues chucked in there too it was pretty helpful for when you got lost, heard a go and wasn't sure if it was you

Actually I take back what I said about LX and Q-Lights, there are instances (like a show I called last weeK) where you have say 25 cues in the space of 4 minuites to a piece of instrumental music where a cue-lights as well as verbal over comms can be useful just to give two signals. You often don't have time to say the number as well when your qing that quickly so it just ends up as "LX...GO, LX...GO" etc. What I mean is Q-Lites on there own are probably no good to LX, I certainly wouldn't like to Op a show with just q-Lights!

Sam

Cans before a show, then hand them to my assistant during a show and be cued by the assistant or by sight (from script or stage), unless there's a specific problem that only I can explain...

Dunno about anyone else, but I reckon a good solution might be some sort of Q-Light system with a numerical readout, so as well as Standby & GO, you have an indication of what cue is GOing. Imagine a small box, with a SB light, a GO light, and a couple of 7-segs showing cue number. You could even use a backlit LCD to give you a short (pre-programmed) description of the next cue, and the one after that. Hmmm, I might give that some more thought and see if I can fit it into the GCSE Electronic Products coursework

Myself, as I've only run school shows, from FOH in the round, it's always visual, sometimes accompanied by a poke in the shoulder

PS Why does Cans have an apotrophe in the topic title?

That's an interesting idea Freddie. A few things you would have to have a think about;

Who would programme the numbers or would they be done live. As a DSM I would say the ideal solution would be to be able to programme the cues yourself on some sort of master station then be able to see what you are about to S/B or GO on your own screen before you do it.

Would there be options to standby a series of cues, in busy parts of shows you would get stand-by for say sound cues 6 through 10.

Would each dept. e.g. LX, Sound, Flys, AV, Lift Op whatever see all the others cues etc. or would it be individual.

Oh and of the most important part of any cue light system, a way to acknowledge S/Bs

Sam

cans are great but I hate it when the stage crew forget to turn the mics off

Cans when it's a dull show, cue lights for sound because hearing stereo is difficult with one ear.

Actually, the use of a PDA with wireless network for the PSM/DSM/Whatever would be great. You could enter all of the cues (lx, flys etc) and then select multiple to stand by, then tap each one again for a go or something. When a call is acknowledged, it could change colour from red to amber, and when you go it, it could turn green. It would not be a cheap thing to make though - probably more expensive than cans - then again, cans are overpriced (there must be about a 3000% markup on those things)

A PDA could be a little fidely though with it being so small, personally I would rather have physical buttons to tap.

Sam

An assistant wearing cans to poke the noise boy with a stick for those rare occasions when they need it. (normally to find out something, but occasionally to actually give a cue.)

Normal cans for LX, SM/DSM and anyone else who needs to comunicate, or just listen without moving.

RADIO cans for the stage crew (with PTT not on/off mics) so they can wander around and still get cues, I got quite used to being able to go outside (on a cruiseship) and enjoy the view when I had 10-15 mins before my next cue. It also means stage crew can tell you whats going in an emergency, even when they are trying to fix a radio mic in a dressing room! (had to do that more than once, twirly was changing too quick to take off and then put back on her mic, so I had to jump in during her change) And you can keep them under your thumb!

I dont like Q-lights myself, far too easy for things to go wrong. My current venue has both cans and Q-lights, dont think we will ever use the lights, except for some really loud rock gigs!

I like to route cans through the mixer personally, it means I don't have to keep swapping between my nice headphones and the inevitably uncomfortable and sweaty cans sets...

I did one show where SM and LX were using cans, and sound, SM, and my radio mic tech were using 2-way radios with the decent earpieces (for emergencies). It worked quite well.

As this is in the Sound forum, I guess we're talking about a sound op. I freely admit I've never been one but a common method I've seen is to give the sound op a Q light as well as cans. The Q light is the standard method of cueing in this case, the cans pack as a back up. This only really works if the cans pack has one of those flashy yellow lights that allow the DSM (or anyone I suppose) to alert the op that they need to speak to them.

Is this the case? Or have I mis-understood all the yellow lights and muffs...

Yes I was aiming towards 'sound', but other departments are more than welcome to make comments!

It is interesting to see the different ways in which people call/op shows! At the uni I train at we generally (well 99% of the time) use q-lights, this mainly due to the fact that the audience is sitting less than 3ft away from the op, in an auditorium position, thus any chat on cans would be somewhat distracting and very annoying! However, we always have a set of cans just in case!

I have in the past relied upon q-lights in very hectic situations where the DSM is rolling off 20-25 q's in less than a page on cans, but sometimes (especially during loud scenes) catching that "Sound Cue xx GO" can be tough, but being able to watch out for that little green light is very handy just for the confirmation.

Ben.

As sound op, you should not really have to say anything over cans. It is more of a listening thing - except in emergancies of course. When SMing with a sound op in the stalls, it is usually the one op I do not expect a standby confirmation from. There is nothing worse than calling from Prompt Corner and not knowing whether they recieved the message (in instances where a cue light is not installed.) Instead, I usually ask for a flash.

All this would actually be quite a small leap from what those of us who run shows from computers already do, just needing the little boxes and some more software features - all the grunt data entry is already done, the cuelist is in place etc... hmm...

Driving shows off a computer does change the traditional "balance of power" between showcaller, Lx op and Sound op. In the world I inhabit (Amateurville), this is good, in the world many of you inhabit, it may be not so good.

In terms of the poll, if I'm mixing I need to know the show, my most important cue device may be the monitor with the MDs wagging hand on it, and I certainly wont have cans on. For everything else, for me its cans all the way.

Cue lights I use either for MD once he's thrown his cans off, or for those actor things who cant see through the door they'll be entering through when the light goes green.

That's exactly what I said is it not? I cannot understand though as a DSM why you do not expect confirmation of your S/B request? Surely the whole point of giving a S/B to any op is so that you know they are ready and waiting? I would by no means take a flash off a set of cans as an acknowledgement, anybody could have pressed it.

Ben.

Sorry to the mods about the poor quoting... not sure how to do it?!?!

either click "Reply" in the post you want to quote, then edit out the irrelevant bits, or use the 'speach bubble' button to create:-

Just a note to people talking about some kind of show control softwear. If you are going to be triggering cues fast enough to need this kind of speed then why bother with ops on the desks?

Also this kind of system exists already. Its called Midi show control, or MDS. Running software such as Showman (there are of course other kinds of softwear out there) you can trigger lighting cues on most Midi equiped lighting desks, and many bits of sound equipment will also accept commands (I think Yamaha digital desks will run their automation from MDS too)

Go work on or just visit a cruise ship (a decent one) and you will see the level of automation that is possible. Shows that are competely automated, SMTP from multi-tracks controling sound desk, showman firing MDS cues based on SMTP, and the LX op just calling followspot cues, and running equipment that doesnt accept MDS. But, everyone is still on cans, execept from sound of course!

And show control softwear is klunky, unreliable and often downright nasty!

nothing will ever beat the power of the spoken word!

Hi

I would rather use both because you then have heard the que and also you can see the que. It also means if you use both if one breaks or doesnt work you have a back up.

Hope this helps

Sam

MDS? I only know this as 'MSC'??

Ben

If you've gone this far why on earth is someone calling followspot cues? They should be coming out of automation too.



Thats a tad harsh. I don't really like ShowMan, I wouldn't want to use it in theatre, but it is a very capable piece of software. Its not the only choice, and every package has its own style of user interface. They are all a bit 'odd', but that is more a function of what these packages do.



Given that most of the people on this board make their living from working in theatre, replacing them all with machines is akin to suggesting that turkeys, given the choice, would vote for christmas. OTOH, As an amateur, I love it, I can out-slick the best using this sort of tech, on a budget that wouldnt hire me an express...

Oh yeah, MDS is MSC, and SMTP is SMPTE :-)

I prefer cans, even though I ticked the 'big stick' option.

Oops. My mistake! MSC it is. Don't know where I got MDS from. Will google to correct brain malfunction!

And I admit that I am being a bit harsh about Show control, but when its working properly it is very usefull, A 45 minuite show with 600 lighting cues anyone? And the people I have worked with on ships only use the automation on sound desks to take away the donkey work, so they can concentrate on actual mixing. Again its a matter of the show involved being too fast for most human sound ops to do enough things at the same time. (If you know that Boy 1 always gets too close to a certain monitor at 00:07:45:00 you can make the desk adjust the monitors for you)

Im not suggesting getting rid of ops! quite the oposite...not least of all because that ever more compex systems like MSC need more skilled ops for when it crashes!

Cans im afraid. Its the best option and the way we do it means as an SM I can get feedback from my crew.