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Bryson
Long-time readers of my random opinions will know that one of my little bugbears is the hours that we work in this industry, and the perception that working 12 hours a day is somehow "normal" and even times in excess of this are pretty frequent. I recall doing a First Aid course with a Paramedic, who could not believe that entertainment ever warranted such long hours. Anyway, I digress, but it's a bit of background for my next point.

I was reading today about a drug called Provigil. Now, Provigil was created to help people with Narcolepsy, and there it probably should have stayed. But it's manufacturer has now also managed to get FDA approval for use in "shift work sleep disorder" - excessive sleepiness caused by odd working hours. Sound familiar to anyone?

This raises the spectre (in my mind, at least) of increasing pressure from greedier and greedier employers to work these extra hours and strange shift patterns. Got a problem? No big deal, get your Doctor to prescribe you some Provigil. Stranger things have happened, including workers pressured to get the Doctor to prescribe tranquilisers or even anti-depressants instead of removing the Stress in the workplace.

It struck me a worrying trend, that was all. We're hurting ourselves by doing something unnatural - so lets take some drugs to sort it all out. There's no such thing as "Shift work sleep disorder" - there's just the fact that Shifts are bad for you, and in most cases, avoidable at a cost. It would seem that the costs in human health are far outweighed by the money.

(Obviously, this is all in America at the moment, although Provigil is now available in this country for use in treating Narcolepsy, so I suspect it's only a matter of time. I also note that the UK armed forces have bought some for some unspecified reason.)
deranged-angel
That looks like scary stuff!

QUOTE (http://www.atsnn.com/story/69535.html)
The drug can be used to keep aircrew and special forces awake for very long periods.
Aircrew?!!!  So they are making aircew fly huge chucks of metal drugged up on this stuff?!

What ever happened to "prevention is better than cure"? And if, taking the above as an example, you were on a flight that had a pilot drugged up on this stuff, would you get on the plane? 

QUOTE (http://www.atsnn.com/story/69535.html)
The US military have researched Provigil and found that people could still function after being awake for 85 hours if given the drug. 


But do they function as well as they would having had a good 8 hours sleep? That cannot be at all healthy and the mistakes that can be made whilst flying an aircraft can be fatal. Even something as simple as working in a factory whilst being tired can be fatal-or at least serious injury can be caused.

Sad thing is that it's only a matter of time util it reached the UK.....

Em
xxx

Moderation: Changed quotes so they are the correct way round.
Just Some Bloke
The Americans don't have the EU Working Time Directive, like us. Latest news on that here.

The hours we work can be long and taxing, but personally I don't mind them as long as I know that soon I'll get a day off. When preparing for a big show I quite like coming in relatively early and just getting on with it till it's either finished or time for bed. Then I'll go home and do the same the next day until it's done. Even with our EU opt-out there are still rules that ensure no-one is taken advantage of so there will be days off and shifts won't run into each other without an end.

In other words, whilst I wholeheartedly agree that we shouldn't use drugs to force us to go on and on unrealistically (and I'd include Pro Plus in that BTW), nevertheless I personally wouldn't want anyone to say you can't do 12 hour days. Sometimes they are necessary - for me personally if for no-one else!
andy_s
This is nothing new - it's why they developed speed and lsd - for military purposes....
ChrisD
I would rather have the option of taking something like pro-plus to keep me awake enough to do a long getin for a gig or something than be falling asleep during the getin. However, I would want to have the choice. Great if the drugs are available, bad if your working conditions FORCE you to use them
Nick Evans
QUOTE
And if, taking the above as an example, you were on a flight that had a pilot drugged up on this stuff, would you get on the plane?
Tiny bit alarmist, these are military pilots we are talking about not civilian. It is more than likely that as far as pilots are concerned, this would be an escape kit item. I am not so sure what the situation for radar operators, etc aboard ELINT / AEW /AWACS aircraft would be.

My grandfather had Benzedrine in his escape kit during WWII, it was to be used when trying to evade capture. Fortunately he never needed it, but he said that combined with the chocolate ration, a bunch of them were awake for 3 days and got a friendly telling off from their CO at the end of it.

QUOTE
I would rather have the option of taking something like pro-plus to keep me awake enough to do a long getin for a gig or something than be falling asleep during the getin. However, I would want to have the choice. Great if the drugs are available, bad if your working conditions FORCE you to use them
Or try working for proper employers who do not put you in the situation in the first place. It is just a gig, no lives will be saved if you do a 24 hour shift. It is not worth risking your long term health because someone somewhere is too disorganised to crew a job properly.
Mush
American military refer to them as "go" and "no-go" pills

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/
lightnix
QUOTE (andy_s @ 12 May 2005, 4:59 PM)
This is nothing new - it's why they developed speed and lsd - for military purposes....
*

Sorry, but that's not true, although they were both tested and used by the military several years after they were first discovered.

History of Amphetamines (speed)
History of LSD

Back OT, this is a disturbing development, particularly with the "WTD backlash" that seems to be gathering momentum at the moment, in the form of "how-dare-Europe-tell-us-how-many-hours-we-can-work-and-how-much-
money-we-can-earn-from-them-and-how-can-our-industries-compete-globally-with-
these-kind-of-nanny-state-restrictions???" type arguements.

Strange, isn't it, how the use of "recreational" drugs (not that I'm condoning it, of course) is seen as something to be stamped out, while the use of drugs to increase productivity and profits is somehow OK.
andy_s
QUOTE (lightnix @ 13 May 2005, 1:30 AM)
QUOTE (andy_s @ 12 May 2005, 4:59 PM)
This is nothing new - it's why they developed speed and lsd - for military purposes....
*

Sorry, but that's not true, although they were both tested and used by the military several years after they were first discovered.

History of Amphetamines (speed)
History of LSD

Back OT, this is a disturbing development, particularly with the "WTD backlash" that seems to be gathering momentum at the moment, in the form of "how-dare-Europe-tell-us-how-many-hours-we-can-work-and-how-much-
money-we-can-earn-from-them-and-how-can-our-industries-compete-globally-with-
these-kind-of-nanny-state-restrictions???" type arguements.

Strange, isn't it, how the use of "recreational" drugs (not that I'm condoning it, of course) is seen as something to be stamped out, while the use of drugs to increase productivity and profits is somehow OK.
*



I stand corrected - interesting articles. I meant that drugs have been tested and (mis)used for military purposes for many many years, not that they were necessarily specifically developed for those purposes, but in my eagerness to be concise, I somewhat overstated the case. Apologies!

doesn't make it any better though - I agree that if it's too dangerous for recreation, then it should be considered unsuitable for work purposes as well.

I would certainly be unhappy if anyone turned up to work for me while under the influence.
Panzerman
Well, I am narcoleptic, and I'm fighting the quack who wants me to swap meds to Provigil, or Modafinil as it is called over here. No chance, I'll stick with the Dexedrine I've been on for the past 15 yrs, at least it's a devil I know. Wait till the side-effects are more thoroughly researched, a few people have grown extra heads or whatever, then I'll consider Modafinil!!

And yes, going through Customs is a bundle of laughs with your suitcase crammed full of packets of speed, despite paperwork from the doc.
bonny
QUOTE (deranged-angel @ 12 May 2005, 2:56 PM)
That looks like scary stuff!

QUOTE (http://www.atsnn.com/story/69535.html)
The drug can be used to keep aircrew and special forces awake for very long periods.
Aircrew?!!! So they are making aircew fly huge chucks of metal drugged up on this stuff?!

What ever happened to "prevention is better than cure"? And if, taking the above as an example, you were on a flight that had a pilot drugged up on this stuff, would you get on the plane?

QUOTE (http://www.atsnn.com/story/69535.html)
The US military have researched Provigil and found that people could still function after being awake for 85 hours if given the drug. 


But do they function as well as they would having had a good 8 hours sleep? That cannot be at all healthy and the mistakes that can be made whilst flying an aircraft can be fatal. Even something as simple as working in a factory whilst being tired can be fatal-or at least serious injury can be caused.

Sad thing is that it's only a matter of time util it reached the UK.....

Em
xxx

Moderation: Changed quotes so they are the correct way round.
*




Aircrews have been given amphetamines for years to help them stay more alert and awake, this just sounds to me like like a different kind of stimulant. I'll have no worries about getting on a plane that a pilot is flying on this drug.
lightnix
There's some very detailed information on Provigil / Modafinil here.

One line that caught my eye: "The precise mechanism(s) through which modafinil promotes wakefulness is unknown." huh.gif
Nick Evans
QUOTE
Aircrews have been given amphetamines for years to help them stay more alert and awake, this just sounds to me like like a different kind of stimulant. I'll have no worries about getting on a plane that a pilot is flying on this drug.
Not civilian pilots, only military. Civilian pilots do not take drugs to keep themselves awake.
Grum
QUOTE (Nick Evans @ 17 May 2005, 12:14 AM)
QUOTE
Aircrews have been given amphetamines for years to help them stay more alert and awake, this just sounds to me like like a different kind of stimulant. I'll have no worries about getting on a plane that a pilot is flying on this drug.
Not civilian pilots, only military. Civilian pilots do not take drugs to keep themselves awake.
*



...........well at least they shouldn't.
deranged-angel
QUOTE
Tiny bit alarmist, these are military pilots we are talking about not civilian. It is more than likely that as far as pilots are concerned, this would be an escape kit item. I am not so sure what the situation for radar operators, etc aboard ELINT / AEW /AWACS aircraft would be


But if this stuff is going to be made available, how do you know if, in a few years, the pilot of a plane has been taking this stuff. What about any side effects? Don't you think it's a bit risky? Even people driving-your concentration level can't be up to standards like after a good night's sleep. When I first started driving, a friend of mine said "remember you are driving a big chunk of metal that is a potential killer if used in the wrong way. Make sure you are constantly concentrating." I know it sounds a bit harsh and over the top, but she's right. People don't concentrate nearly enough when driving and that's how people end up in accidents.

I just think that there's nothing better than a good night's sleep and lots of exercise and fresh air to help concentration. This is being obsessed by work, to me, there's much much more to life than working, no matter how much I love my job.

Employers need to recognise they have to get in more staff than force people to take drugs to do their job and damage their health.

Em
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