hi
I've got a battle of the bands type gig coming up and I really want to have a few video cameras around the stage and hung off the lighting truss, then displayed with two projectors onto the wall surrounding the stage. I've recently rigged up a permenant black & white camera system for when we use the hall for plays and shows, and I could adapt this to use a colour camera quite easily. my problem comes with using multiple cameras and a computer to give visualizations between the bands. I assume there is some kind of vision mixer or switch that could do this but I've no idea what I should be looking for.

I need composite video in's from the cameras (probably 3 or 4 cameras) and a VGA from the computer, going out to either composite or VGA connections on the projectors. presumably I would need a splitter at the projector end as well.

please help!

thanks in advance - the amount of expertise on this board is amazing!!

tim

hi,
we have done exactly what you want todo.. well nearly.. we use computer graphics from a package call arkaos which takes live camera feeds and do fancy stuff with them.. then we have a videonics MX1 that we put other cameras into.. e.g. firewire from DV camera into laptop then S-video also out into the video mixer.. works pretty well.. we use the S-video out of the laptop into the vision mixer.. we have only used it so far for DJ nights with live deck feeds and stuff.. worked pretty well though.. also we've just bourght a cheapo panasonic f10 to be used down the front funnily enough for a battle of the bands type gig.. we send composite video from vision mixer to projector.. not the best quality but for video stuff its ok.. looks a bit naff with high res CG though..

rgds
chris

yeh I had thought about running a software-based system but I'd prefer to have something external so I dont need to buy software. I can hire hardware instead at much less cost.

thanks for the input though!

tim

we love our mx50 but it's only 4 inputs - you could do it with 3 camera's and a computer using a board like this, or the mx20 with is mentioned on another thread round here would agian do 4 inputs. Those are the only 2 vidot boards I know. If your using a VGA out from a PC rather than a a pc with a video card that comes out on s-video or some thing else usefull then you'll need a genleock also to get from VGA to some thing the board takes. The link for the mx20 manaul which has a good description of the board is in said other thread

Something along the lines of an Extron DVS406, ISS808 or Analog way Smart fade will allow you to scale and mix composite with VGA and output generally in VGA or SVGA format.

Contact me off board if you'd like fruther info and hire prices.

I am lokking to create a similar effect if possible for a gig in a little while. I have never done AV before so it is all a bit of a learning curve. I have got a MX20 at my diposal and am using that and having my 4 inputs as 2 live camera feeds, 1 PC and a DVD player. The only thing I am not sure about is the outputs.

I ahve do projectors; an epson and a elmo which I can use but I only have 1 output from the MX20. I dodnt want the projectors to output different stuff so that is not a problem but what will I need to send a feed to both??

Thanks

Sam

Easiest way is to put a T piece in the MX20's output, assuming your running the feed on compsoite BNC cable. You will get some signal loss.

You might be lucky in that one of the projectors has a through option on the composite signal, but I can remeber seeing one.

The other option is a VDA (Video Distribution Amp). Feed the output of the MX20 into this, and then the outputs from this to your two projectors.

I swear by our little Edirol V 4 mixer with effects.

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/v4.html#back

4 inputs, 2 out and a preview. Its also is packed with effects and the likes for VJ mixing.

Priced around £700 though and I'm not sure that you can hire them.

We're using one of those Edirol's for graphics overlay on a big show at the moment, with an MX-70 as the main vision mixer and it's a nice little unit, that I would also recommend. Only thing is the dial for setting the Luma-key level is a bit dodgy, but that could be because this one has been used and abused.

PN

I really wouldnt use a T piece, for the sake of a few quids hire of a 2 way VGA DA unit, or buy a cheap one from CPC.

MX50 are cost effective, easy to use, reliable and there are component versions around (we have two for sale and hire surtees.co.uk) and will accept any input and stabilise it, but the limit is four inputs plus a key.

An ISS 408 will provide an XGA output, but be warned, they are a little slower to handle the transitions, as they are working in higher res, but they can mix happily between XGA, composite, component, Svideo etc.

If you want loads of effects though, the MX50 and 70 are your best bets, pretty much industry standard at the lower end of video mixing, and cost effective.

In a gig we did recently I was doing the vt and we had an MX 50, 2 camera feeds, 2 visualizers (moonstar and winamp) and the tsunami festival feed and I only had 3 tielines one for the feed from the sky box, one from the camera on stage and one going to the projector but we had to send the feed out over the in-house network, and I just threw a t-piece into the projector feed out to the network feed and I didn't have any loss in signal strength this may however have been because signal was sent through some very powerful amps (cant remember what they are) in the network room so that might have had something to do with it but I doubt it as it was after the t-piece

We do a lot of this work and for the best quality to cost I would recomend
MX70 2 x RGB out to projectors,computer scan converted on input 1, main camera on input 2 with the 3 other cameras put them through a manual swithcher and preselect before mixing. 4th input DVD player,play abstact show graphics (easily bought) and partial mix with live feed or graphics.

Ian

as somebody has allready mentioned, I also use Arkaos.

Its superb, you can add transistions and effects, very good and you can use as many cams as you want, a long with mixing in pre-recorded video and images.

you mentioned that you dont want to use PC based to save on buying it.

BUT..........you can download the demo of arkaos from there website, which will run for 30 days, full version.

if this is a one off event, you could use it.

it also free's your hands up, because you patch the effects and cameras to the keys of your QWERTY. You can set up a patch with a cam on then add a transition effect, so as soon as you press the key on the QWERTY it fades to the next camera, with a single key press.

I also like how you can make the cams transparent so you can over lay multiple cams on top of any other cam or image.

Vince

Any reason not to make use of the additional four inputs accessible via shift, so you don't need to hire in a manual switcher? Unless of course you are running all the cameras on S-Video, in which case I believe you will be limited in that respect.

PN

There's also a really cheap and nasty solution, that probably doesn't need any extra hardware or software, apart from cables, if you're only using 1 camera...

Warning: I DID use the word "nasty" - this isn't exactly a professional solution

It relies on the fact that the projectors have multiple inputs - you make use of this.

run your PC output to the VGA in on the first projector. Then take the VGA out (which will usually be buffered) to the second.

Then use a "passive splitter" (a more professional-sounding name for a T-piece ) to connect the composite feed from the camera to both projectors.

If your projector has multiple composite inputs, you can repeat with a second camera.

Then use the projector remote to swap between inputs.

Cheap and nasty, but if budget is tight.....

Personally, I'd use DAs, but if I didn't have any available....

Bruce.

There is in fact an even cheaper and nastier solution using very basic hardware, that allows for multiple composite sources.

You just buy one of those sets of interlocked push switches (where only one switch can be selected at a time), with as many switches as you have sources and put it in a box with some connectors. The radio station had one with a label on it of "My First Vision Mixer", which we used at the elections show as elections group were being awkward. It worked okay, although because it doesn't have any sync between sources you get this "interesting" roll effect when you cut from one source to the next.

They had also added a second bus on to allow selection of signals for two different outputs.

PN