This may seem like a really stupid question, but it's a problem I've never had before.

At any school venue, and at any professional venue, that I've ever mixed FOH at, there's been nothing but air between the FOH system and me and my mixing desk. Our lovely refurbished 'theatre' at school now has a tech box. However, this introduces a big double glazed glass panel inbetween me and the FOH system. We're getting monitors installed in there for general hearing, but I don't understand how I'm supposed to balance 12 radio mics against a live (unmiced) orchestra in a musical if I can't actually hear what the audience is hearing? Am I being stupid/fussy here, or should the director, who wants to lock me in the box, let me be out in the open with the desk?

Charlie

That's what happens when some know-it-all architect, who may have seen pictures of a "recording studio", gets let loose. Or maybe when the same architect marks it down on the plans as "projection box", and the building control people think of celluloid film, fire regs etc.

Sigh.

Ideally you'd want a window that opens.

Maybe you could arrange for the window to "fall out". That's what happened at a brand new school that my kids attend... but only after they had blown 5 rather expensive speakers, cos they couldn't hear how loud it was in the auditorium.

So common in schools and colleges. I was a Gloscat when their new space was being built, and saw the window frame waiting to be fitted - sealed, not opening. I queried it and got shrugs. Not confined to schools though - how many theatres have a proper audio mixing position? Loads have an audio room, but mix from the auditorium, leaving the 'designed' space provided for sound unused.

A nice acoustically controlled room is a great place to mix for recording, so the audience noise and the fan noise don't stop you hearing - trouble is, we all know we have to be out in the open to alter the perfect mix to sound good!

We also have a 'projection room', but for school productions we move sound downstairs - I can hear what I need to, and the lighting guy gets a chair to put his feet up! Our hall was originally deisgned for just assemblies and conferences, and the projection box is - get this - lined with soundproofing material!

Permission to use Hmmmmmm® ?

Chris

Few!

Before I went on a rampage for change just wanted to check I hadn't missed something. And while on the subject, these genius architects also managed to feed a DMX cable to this room and.....

....that's it.

Now the school maintanance staff are having to bodge a multicore in somewhere :-(

Cheers,
Charlie

imo, if its at all convenient, just stick it on the floor. after all, you want to be hearing what it sounds like at audience level (but maybe on a riser), not 10-20 feet up.

Had this at a venue I used to work at. It was designed as a projection room for thier cinema setup. When "Patching up" I "Fell" against the window. But yeah this is all too common practice in multi use rooms.

Fight kicking and screaming to get a spot in the auditorium. It's never satisfactory mixing in an enclosed control room.

That said, on the occasions when I'm forced to do this, I make sure I have some decent studio monitors. Then I set up a good quality condenser mic somewhere towards the rear of the stalls and arrange my monitoring so I can toggle back and forth between the board output and my "monitor mic". Between the two (and with a fair bit of running back and forth to the auditorium during the tech) I can get a reasonable idea of what the mix sounds like to the punters.

Bob

I too have to mix through a small(ish) window at school, and it's a complete nightmare. Something can sound fine in the box but sound absolutely awful outside.

I agree with Bobbsy - fight kicking and screaming...

I once did a school where there was the "projection Box" scenario but they were told about the problem so they removed the glass and cut a 30cm x 30cm hole in the middle which resulted in us mixing with our heads through a 30cm x 30cm hole interesting performance....

The closed window is ideal for sending sound on to the audience in another place or time, -Studio for broadcast or recording, where you need to hear the total recorded product ecause that is what the listener will hear, by radio or disc.

The open space is needed to mix and balance the live and the amplified sounds in a live environment, you have to be listening to what the customer is paying to hear.

Part of the reason for the "control room" build is ignorance by the designers and specifiers, part is for the security of the high value kit.

You really do need to present carefully a case for having the control room window openable for live mixing and closeable for security.

Is there no space in the auditorium for you to do your mixing? Then just leave the box to the lighting and video (if applicable) depts.?

The Theatre at Coleg Morganwg, Llynypia, South Wales has a Sound Proof Control room. Why? Nope I don't know either.

[Rant]
Architects working for BSF should be made to work as a school technician for a month (including at least one show) before being issued with a pencil to start the new design!
[/Rant]

Of course this is far from just a "school problem". I know of a number of civic theatres that have their sound gear in a technical box behind solid windows. We're so used to getting around this by using a number of audience seats for the FOH mix position that we forget there isn't a proper control position designed in.

Part of this, of course, is the change in expectations for sound in the last 20 or 30 years. In the "good old days" sound was purely for playing in a few effects off a hissy tape recorder. Nobody ever thought of putting mics on the cast or orchestra. The cast had to project and the MD was responsible for getting the balance of the music right. For a few sound effects you could live inside the sound proof cocoon, doing your crossword and joking with the lighting guy.

Now, even Amdram and School plays have 10 or 20 radio mics plus a fully miked orchestra--and in these conditions the need to hear the mix live grows exponentially. Alas, the architects brigade haven't kept up with this.

Bob

At the Hawth in Crawley they have (had?) a neat arrangement whereby the multicore is presented on multipins in both the auditorium and in the control room, and thus they can on a show by show basis choose from where to mix. Always thought that was a great solution.

We have that at The Capitol Theatre, in Horsham just down road from crawley. Bloody handy!

although nowadays, with ethernet multicores, this problem could be made easier to deal with.

At our school we have a single room split in half (connecting door) with a three-segmented sliding glass panel (like in display cases) in the lighting side and an open space with a solid metal screen that opens and closes like a garage door on the sound side. Security is absolutely essential since the auditorium is used for study hall at lunchtime :-), and we keep the boards, microphones, and headsets in there. Plus we expect that our spaces and boards will be undisturbed from one evening to the next. Had to do a show in the gym once - everybody messed with my gain knobs and it really screwed me up. So if you can, get them to keep that stuff secure.

Get the window exchanged for an opening with an opening and closing security screen. Bring up the cost of equipment damage and the fact that you just can't do your job without hearing what the audience hears.

If the school won't do it, get yourself put in the audience. You may be able to get a table on casters for the sound desk so it can be wheeled into a locking cabinet when not in use.

You cannot mix what you can't hear and you cannot mix via monitor speakers in a windowed control room. Firstly Microphones are no substitute for a good ear and the colouration from the Mic/speaker setup will render the sound completely different to the sound outside and so will bear no resemblance.
Secondly you could easily find yourself in your control room happily mixing the sound which sounds great in the monitors, but with dead quiet in the auditorium because the amps have lost power or some other problem.

If you cannot get the window taken out, or at least opened, you should take the desk down into the auditorium and operate from there, even in the control room with the window open the sound will not be the same, but at least would be a compromise.

A school hall I've done a few shows in (Kaiapoi High School auditorium for the curious) has what looks to all the world like little wrought iron gates over the control room opening. You can operate through them quite happily, or take them out altogether (key lock) if they are just too annoying.

This venue does have the worlds worst house light controls though (sorry camera phone pic):

If you are in a box - then you can't hear the teacher or director.

I'm sure this will anoy them more than it will detract you from todays crossword.