Hi,
Been looking through this forum for sometime now and finally decided to join up. I really need some advise on upgrading my current pa system.
I play in a four piece band and mic everything up(3xvox, drums, guitar, bass and keyboards(that'll be me.... which includes sequenced bass, drums and samples etc)). My current pa is as follows

2xPeavey HiSys 4rx speakers powered by a
Lem PFX2.0
2xFBT Verve 18s speakers powered by a
Citronic 3200
Behringer Eurodesk SL3242fx pro desk
Behringer Super X Pro CX2310 crossover

I've been using the peavey cabs for about 10 years now and am looking to replace them.
1. Because these cabs are very big.
2. Because I only use 1 (probably) of the speakers in the cab (ie I crossover at about 140hz)
3. I want to get a real good concert type sound out of a small system(very difficult indeed I know)
I have to take into consideration the size of the speakers as I carry this system in a Ford Galaxy. So space is minimal.
With this in mind I am looking to get the FBT Verve 152s. But I am worried about the fact that my current amp will only put 650w at 8ohms. But the 2" horn would probably improve the sound anyway. Your thoughts on this please?!!!!

Also I would probably be looking to get a further 2xFBT Verve 18s at a later stage.
Would this improve my overall sound or would this type of set up lack clarity in the top end?
Or can anyone recommend a system that would give me what I'm after? (big sound, small system)

Really need some advice. Hope you can help.
Thank you in advance
PAUL.

Good brand names to look out for loud speeker wise -

Turbosound

Void Acoustics

Funktion one

Those are some pretty good brands to look at.

Hope this helps,

Heinz?

Moderation: Quality Control: The OP asks some very specific questions and asks for considered, explained answers. This reply doesn't answer the question and doesn't give reasons for suggestions. It is, therefore, totally useless. Would other members please take note of how not to answer a question?

So I take it you don't think the FBT verve range would be any good?

Trouble with the list you've provided is that, yes they are all great brands, they are all a bit on the pricey side!!!!

I'm looking to spend around £1200 on the top speakers. I know this limits me but thats all I can afford at the moment.

As I said. I do intend to improve the system bit by bit. By adding the tops and then another set of 18s (or the FBT verve 15s?) I hope I can get a descent system.

Also been looking at the DB Technologies and RCF stuff.
Can anyone recommend a preference?
I'm looking to be playing to a max of 400 people (local pubs etc).

Hi Paul,

I'm a big fan of FBT speakers and my rig is based on them. I've also installed quite a few with good results. I think the Verve 152 whould be an improvement on the Peaveys - certainly smoother sounding and would keep up with 4 Verve 18s if you got another pair in time. You seem to have a goodly amount of amp power for the boxes you currently have and I don't think you'd have a problem driving Verve 152s with the LEM at all - 650W is plenty.

I would try lowering the crossover frequency to 120 or even 100Hz if you haven't already experimented with that, although I don't know what sort of music you play or how you like it to sound. I find 100Hz works well for Verve subs.

As far as lack of clarity at the top end, a 2" driver won't have quite the response of a 1" driver above 10kHz, but I doubt you'd notice, and you can always add a touch of eq. The biggest benefit will be the weight reduction though. Verve's are fantastically light.

I can only guess what you mean by "Concert Sound out of a small system". What you propose will produce thunderous levels and real clarity for any pub gig and most hotel function rooms. Extra subs would allow you to do small outdoor stuff too. To get 130dB+ sort of levels out of a system that will fit in a Galaxy, you really have to spend serious money for something like KV2 Audio or Funktion One, and then you'd need to ditch the amps and speakers you've already got. If you're nearly satisfied with what you have, then look to small improvements rather than a total rethink.

Pete.

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the advice. I love the bass bins. I used to have a pair of celestion SR2s and changing them over has improved the sound no end!!!! Here is an example of the type of music we play...

http://www.zambu.co.uk/Videos/ZAMBU%20KARM...20+%20Intro.wmv

Can you recommend any amps (that aren't too pricey) for the 18s. The Citronic is great at the moment(1600w a side) but its bloody heavy!!!! I would like an amp that does 2000w, each channel, at 2ohms(to cover the 4 speakers... when I get them).

Err yeah, you probably would need to re-morgage your house to buy things some Funktion!

Lol

Give it up. Go active Paul. Baring in mind your car size and set up, you just won't regret it and won't look back. Mate of mine was dead set and a rather determined band memeber of his talked them into some JBL PRX and they haven't looked back. I'd look at all the usual suspects JBL, RCF, QSC, Mackie, Yamaha, db technologies etc or even some of the very new LD stuff even, but just do yourself a favour and ditch the amps -for your kind of set-up and application you won't go wrong. But, don't want to start a war of words here passive v active etc..

For this situation* the RCF TT+ Speakers seem to fit the bill nicely.

There is plenty of information on these on here, just use the Google search the box at the top of every page.

Josh

*Given the lack of information.

If you know where to get a pair of those for £1200, post it up & I'll go buy some too!

I read through the O/P three times before posting. Even though I knew about the 2nd post It didn't click that the O/P had posted a Budget.

I'd still recommend something from the RCF Art Range or the db Technologies Basic or Opera ranges.

I own 4 of the Basic 100s which I think sound great. Two of these might cut it but only your ears can decide.

Get yourself out to a couple of local stores and have a listen to any and all systems in your price range.

Josh

Thanks guys. Really appreciate your help on this.

Trouble is its always difficult to tell what a system is like until you use it. Also, I would need to travel some distance to go to a place that stocks some of this stuff. I'm currently in touch with a local shop, who are good friends of mine, and they are getting the FBT 152s in for me to try.

I have looked at an active system (HK Actor DX) but I was not impressed. It seemed to lack any clarity at the top end (and I was pushing the top speakers... the bass end had loads to give though!!!!).

I'm pretty fussy with sound. I do the ocassional pa for bands but most of the time it is my own band. Also I have to set it up from behind the cabs so the only chance of hearing it is when I'm sound checking each instrument or when I'm not playing and I dash out front to hear it!!! Not ideal but its the only way.....

I keep thinking of going active as the setup is quick and so easy.... But there is always that problem of if something goes wrong (not saying it will... but). With seperates you do have the ability to adjust your setup to suit!!!

Oooh!! Do not use HK as your reasoning not to buy active. As dull as dishwater, heavy, impractical. RCF ART, Mackie, Jolly, Yamaha MSR etc.. You won't go wrong, but good luck with the Verve. Hope the back's up for it!!

Glad you said that about the HK rig... I thought it was just me!!!!!

Just been looking at the RCF Art 522a's .... Look and sound very interesting.... Slightly over my bugdet but if I got these then I could keep my existing amps amd purchase another set of FBT 18s....(power them with my LEM pfx2.0 at 1000w a side)

I think that could work!!!!!?

Hi
If your looking for an active system that you can get into a car with a fab noise to size ratio then go Fohhn!!
We use the Fohhn experience III system in our hire stock and the number of sales that come from hire clients is crazy!!
Running it as a power system (2 subs & tops) gives a very impressive 3kw rig...
Have a look at www.fohhn.com or our web site www.livesystems.co.uk for more info
B

Db Forty Line system is loud enough, portable, light, great sounding.

Thanks.

The Fohhn system is not really powerful enough ( I may be wrong!!!) as I'm currently running at 5200watts. A drop to 3k would probably show..... Thanks anyway.

db Forty Line System is bigger than the HK Actor DX system that I tried and, unfortunately, too big to fit in my car... I forgot to mention that I take 3 keyboards+2 stands, mixing desk and a monitor speaker with me. This takes up some room!!!!!

I'm trying to decide if to go with the FBT verve 152's or the RCF Art 522a's ... The later is looking more promising due to the fact I can use these as monitors when I play with other bands. Also I would be able to fit these and another pair of FBT verve 15s in .. Bringing my pa upto 6700w in total...

Nice!!!!

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I live in the south east of kent.

Can anyone recommend a shop, thats within a reasonable distance (ie not more than 100miles away), that I can visit that will have a good stock of pa's so I can try some out?

Aside from the fitting in a car, powered and all that rubbish, 5200 watts? So what exactly does that mean then? Go out and have a listen to 2 stacks of C7 and tell me that it's 2400watts isn't enough.

I did say "I may be wrong" and I do know what you mean. Its not all about wattage.... I've learnt that much.

I'm not that knowlegdable on the modern day type of equipment(especially the active speaker stuff). Its just so difficult due to the amount thats available. I just want to be sure that I'm going to be "improving" my system.
Hence the questions for advice!!!!

Hi,
Can anyone recommend a shop that stocks a lot of the speakers that have been mentioned on here? (I live in the south east of kent.... So a shop near by would be handy!!!!) As I think the only way I can choose would be to try them out myself.

I'll admit that an active system does sound ideal. We shall see!!!

Is this fake watts?
What are you trying to archive with a loud system? I did a festival with a Fohhn System, although it was about £7000! It did the job. And your going to use this system where?


Not all HK rigs are like that!!! Take a look at some others....

Good Luck.

I do appologise for my ignorance.... I'm not that clued up on this stuff!!! I'm more of a musician than a sound engineer.
Anyway, I'm trying to get a concert sound (thumping kick drum, vocal clarity, a large powerfull sound) for local pubs and clubs (laughable I know....) but in a small package that won't cost me the earth. I know there are a lot of great systems out there and I would love the chance to hear some (anyone know a shop in the South East of Kent that has a good range of pa systems?).
Compared to what I'm currently running, would it be worth me starting a fresh with an active pa system? If so... What would you recommend? (Around £4000 mark I should imagine)
What HK rig would you suggest? I always thought that the Actor DX system would be perfect but I was a little dissapointed!!!

I'm going to be trying the FBT verve 152s with my FBT verve 18s in the next couple of weeks(fad up with lugging my peavey hisys 4s around).

As you can see... I'm very indecisive!!!! Or maybe cautious!!!!LOL.

This topic covers most of the things you need to know about buying a new sound system.

Josh

I think you need to have some more realistic expectations. You can't get the sound you're wanting out of a system that will fit in the back of a car! Whilst you could probably make a system that would do that for the £4000 you mention (quick look at Thomann suggests perhaps a pair of their 2x18" subs, some FBT PSR 215s, a pair of T.amps, and a Behringer DSP - this is just an example, not a thought through recommendation!) you're going to need at the very least a small van to transport it in. Big sound needs big speakers (relatively).

someone I know phoned RCF directly recently dtscape and they suggested PA Supercentre (google it I guess) to have a listen, he went and said that although not a glamorous type of place they had la big demo area and lots of RCF that you could try and he spent about four hours listening there!!

Hi guys, remeber me?
Just thought id add my bit on this subject.

From what I read it sounds like something like an RCF art system is going to fit the bill perfectly, However RCF have just launced a new range in the ART series, the 7 series. Quite frankly, there awesom. A 722-a retails at £900 a box, so there going to push you over your limit, however there well worth it. Remeber you wont have to buy amps ontop of this. They consist of a 12" lf driver and a 2" hf. IMO the perfect combination for most applications.

However, RCF are going to kill me for saying this, from what I have herd, there isnt much difference between the 722-a and the 522a, sound wise anyway. However if the 522's are still looking a bit dear then take a look at the 322's, there not as lound, but they are still perfectly lound enough for most aplication, iv got a pair and havent had a situation where they have struggled yet, and I use them for a huge variaty.

If you can afford them I would reccomend the 522's there brilliant boxes, very light and very loud, if not the 322's are equaly as good, just not as light and not as loud!

As for subs, take a look at the 18" subs from there 4-pro range, there brilliant subs, and far better the 15" in the art series.

If you need any more info just drop me a message.
Cheers
Rich

Thanks guys... I'll be checking all this stuff shortly.
Still need some help though.

I have found a way to fit 4xFBT verve 18s and, either, a pair of 15s or 12s in the car (along with all my other bits!!!!).
My quandry is ..... Due to finances I am unable to buy the whole lot in one go. My first thing is to dispose of my HiSys 4s and replace them. Still using my current amp(LEM PFX2.0 1000w @4ohms/650w@8ohms) or active speakers(RCF 772as or similar). I've been advised to go for the 12s (which I agree with) but I'm wondering if they will struggle until I get the 2nd lot of subs? (ie low mid range etc.) Its been recommended to me that with passive speakers I can allow double the RMS wattage (ie 700w rms speaker driven by a 1400w amp). Would a passive speaker(as in my example) be any better than an active (750w) speaker? Baring in mind my current setup(2x18s)...

Ok... sudden change in plans. Due to a change in circumstances I need some advice!!!!
I tried the FBT verve 152s and was very dissapointed... good job really as I can no longer afford to make such a big change.

With my current setup I would like to upgrade certain areas. My sub bass speakers are good so what I need help with is the top end. I'm not changing the speakers but maybe the amp and crossover. I currently drive my Peavey HiSys4rx's with a LEM PFX2.0 (1000w a side) but the Peaveys are 1000w rms, 2000w prog and 4000w peak(so they say!!!). I have found recently that the LEM amp clips (when driven hard and the amp has no limiter) but also distorts my speakers (sounds like a firework display when I hit a clap of thunder on my keyboard... really must remember to turn it down on that sound!!! LOL).
I have a very limited budget (£600 max)for getting a crossover and amp so....

What amp would you recommend and what crossover(currently use a behringer cx2310..)?

id probably go for a PV 3800 Amplifier
its made for this job!

even has a crossover built in and should never clip on these speakers!
price is £550 to £600

I h avnt used this amp, but I have used every other amp in the range extensively, (the PV 900. PV 1500 and PV 2600)

What about EV SX 300 SPEAKERS.

They're ideal if you need to strip some paint. Plenty of people also like listening to them though so maybe that's just me.

The PV 3800 sounds good. It's a possibility.. nice weight as well!!!!

The EV SX300.... I'm not so sure. Several people have said that they lack warmth... a bit harsh was the exact term.... Haven't had any experience with them myself though....

I love the EVSX300 I have 3 sets in my hire stock. I think its a geographical thing, like some areas in the uk its Martin, others its Turbosound etc.

the SX300 is a great full range cab. nice warm sound and great for vocals (mainly I use the for theatre/productions) some bands here prefer the SX300 sound to the Martin F12.

Personally I would prob choose an RCF Art or TT+

I've not really heard the RCF ART stuff (not the active anyway). I'm really keen to give them a try as so many on here seem to recommend them. Can't afford the TT range. I really need to try some of these systems out... trouble is that I will need to travel to try any of it and in reality the only REAL test (in my opinion) is to try them at a gig!!!
Anyone know a hire company based in Kent that have a wide range of equipment (mainly RCF stuff as everyone keeps going on about them!!!)
Thinking about the EV SX300s I may be able to try them as a friend of mine has a few sets... I'll let you know....

Keep coming with the suggestions....

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Quick note.... Would the EV SX300s be a suitable match (ie are they powerfull enough) seeing as they are only 300w a cab (I know the spl is 130 max)? When I tried the FBT verve 152 (spl 126max) they really struggled and they were 650w. (I'm showing my lack of knowledge here I think!!!!)

Think of the power rating as miles per gallon -

a thirstly old V8 will drink plenty but won't necessarily be any more powerful than a modern fuel-efficient engine.

SPL - sound pressure level - is your measure of how loud it is.

Not sure about this statement pattonaudio.

The TT+ 12" is a very good cab indeed, this I would compare to the F12, but not an ev sx 300.

That strikes me as a slightly wierd comment;



Thats abit like saying I would reccomend a ford or a ferrari, there two totally different products,for two totally different uses. And whats wrong with the rest of the rcf range? The 4pro or NX.

Rich

like I said it all depends on the geographical area, EV (which I use for productions etc mainly vocals) are popular here so is Martin and RCF are becoming stonger! phew!