Hi all

Just searching for opinions really. I'm getting rather fed up with comments from members in the band and the odd publican that my band have "too much gear".

So, this is our kitlist. We're a 4 piece ROCK band.

At normal pubs.

PA

2 x Mackie SR1530
1 x Seck 12:2 mixing desk
2 x Reverb/delay for outboard
2 x JBL TR105 wedges for foldback
1 x Thomann TA2400MkX for foldback
1 x Behringer FBQ1502
1 x BBE crossover
Various mics

Backline

1 Peavey Bass amp
4 x 12 for above (DI into PA)
1 Marshall 100 guitar amp
4 x 12 for above
Tama Crestar Drumkit (or Roland TD electronic)

Lighting

8 x PAR 56 on stands
Soundlab controller
LeMaitre hazer

At bigger gigs (big pubs/clubs) we add:

2 x Mackie 1800 Subs
2 x additional foldback wedges
16way multicore


Doesn't seem excessive to me but who am I to say

Based on what our band has that doesn't look excessive to me and we also tailor what we take out with us to the venue.

No doubt the complaints from band members are as a result of having to carry the gear into and out from the venue.

What you need to do is look at what you can remove from this, and how it affects the show.

To me it doesn't really look like there is anything.

People who have worked with me will know I like to use the least gear I can without affecting the overall performance. They'll also know that I like to keep those small number of items simple, quick get in quick get out.

When they say too much gear, what exactly do they mean? Do they mean, there's lots of gear, it takes up alot of space, or do they mean there's lots of gear it takes too long to setup? If the former then they need to understand that its all necessary. If the latter then you have to look at whether they have a valid point or not.

Multipins, looms, patch bays, everything having its own place, lots and lots and lots of WHEELS, usually cuts down time on the in and out. Each member of the band having specific jobs to do, always doing that job. Getting the pa setup before they start messing about with their guitars.

From experience with alot of bands, the first time someone turns on a guitar amp and strums an out of tune chord the entire setup comes to a complete standstill.

Rob

why do you bring a 4x12 for the bass rig, if you DI it anyway?

Being a soundguy, I dont think that is too bad, (ie ive seen a lot worse) but I do have a personal hatred of 4x12 cabs, I just dont see the need, if a venue is big enough to warrent the size of a 4x12, you'll be supported through the PA anyway, all they do is make a load of noise, ruin my FOH mix when they decide to turn it up, and/or ruin my monitor mix by over powering everything on stage, this only really applies to small gigs, but why bring such a big speaker to a small gig...!

Sorry, rant over.

But more to the point, how big are the venues your playing, because the 1530's are pretty big bits of kits, the smaller gigs I mean. If your playing local pubs, yeah the 1530's could be a little excessive.

For bands the backline takes some of the monitoring duties, negating the need to feed the bassist's monitor with his instrument. For small bands they might not mic up the cab at all if it's a small gig. As a bass player and an engineer I have different size cabs (2x10, 1x15, 4x10) that I will mix and match depending on the size of the gig, transport available (ie my car, the van or a backine truck) and the sound I'm trying to create in the studio. Just as you would pick a strat with single coil pickups for one tone, and a les paul with humbuckers for another tone.

yeah I understand the importance for bass cabs doubling up as a monitor (of sorts) but is the DI from the head, not a little pointless for small gigs with a 4x10, which is surely going to be able to fill a room without PA support?

haha, tbf I was just blowing off about my personal hatred of big cabs, when I feel a 2x12 for guitars or 1x15 for basses is more than enough.

I was once doing a gig where the bass player just kept turning up his rig, when he had ample monitoring, and ended up overpowering the FOH, because it was just a small gig, we didnt bother bringing a huge PA, and then had the balls to tell me through a mic on stage that the sound was ######, even though the bass wasnt coming through the PA at all, and the PA was pushing as hard as it could.

Hmm.. a few interesting points in there.

Firstly I think the "criticisms" come from lack of experience and they see it as too much gear because it looks a lot when its sitting on the floor waiting to be set up. Most is on wheels though and we have sets of wheels as well so there is very little humping. Set up time is about 90 mins and tear down an hour. I've been gigging and doing PAs for bands for 30 years so its all old hat to me.

We know that we could so a small pub with a couple of Mackie SRM350s but we'd not be able to mic anything up *and* we'd need to have 2 sets of kit to do bigger gigs as well. One of the big advantages as I see it is that we really know the kit as we use it all the time. The Mackie 1530s are big boxes though.

The reason we use the 4 x 12 for the bass is that we like the sound. As a band with only one guitar the sound the bass adds is very important to me when I'm soloing. I DI the bass for foldback mainly (so I can hear him) but we do put a little through FOH with a lot of low boost to add low end grunt. I also nearly always add a little kick (Shure Beta 91) to the mix.

The other issue I have is people manking about volume. I (lead guitar) inevitably get told I'm too loud as soon as I play a chord then as soon as the drummer starts playing I have to turn up as they can't hear me. Same old, same old I suppose

I see a lot of bands local and professional and overall we're not loud. I sneak around at other gigs with my dB meter and compare.

I think the only thing you could cut down on is the lighting for smaller gigs, just take the 4 cans in, thats one less tripod, apart from that it seems quite reasonable to me

Out of interest, what sort of sound pressure level does your band (and the others you compare with) play at?

About 107-110dB 10-15ft from the stage.

I'm guessing that your stated hour and a half to setup includes load in and sound check? If not, you could look at streamlining your setup - not less kit, but one can always be smarter about how things are setup.

Agreed with Ben, this seems a fairly long time to setup, especially if this DOESN'T include load in and soundcheck or one of the above.

Does everyone get stuck in or is it left to you?

How is your kit racked / transported? Do your parcans stay on their T-bars or is it a case of building from scratch every time? Is all your outboard in one rack? Do you have mulitpin disconects for said rack? Do your racks have inbuilt power distros (ie. one plug and go) or do you build up from 4-ways each time? Are your signal/power leads to your active cabs loomed, or do you run seperate cables each time? And the really important question, do you get to the venue and have a pint before you start rigging? And is this drink included in your setup time? Often it's not the amount of kit you have, more the way it's put together that makes the time difference

Agreed 90 minutes seems like a long time, unless you mean from turning up to playing, in which case with the 5minutes here and there for a drink/cig isn't too bad!

And it always looks like loads when its heaped up on the stage! haha, we did an open air festival at the weekend, and I was amazed at where 3 large van loads of gear (before backline and instruments) disappeared to. but then, if you've done something right, people wont know you've done anything at all!

The 90 mins is from when we arrive at the venue till we're ready to roll (ie includes unloading, sound check and faffing about).

All the parcans are already on their T bars. We put them on their stands with a controller each side and daisy chain up to the desk. I do the PA and my backline, the others do their stuff and help out with the lighting. The singer does his radio mic and tambourine

At small venues we use an 8 way multicore to get the desk inputs up by the drumkit as it saves draping loads of screened leads around.

All the foldback kit is racked (stage right usually) and ready to go as is the outboard (up by the desk) both have their own power distro.

I don't know about you BigYinUK, but sometimes it takes us longer to set up if the area provided is not exactly on the large side.
I'ts no good trying to set up a lighting rig whilst someone else is running/taping cables under your feet, I would guess with four of you, getting in each others way in a small area is going to be inevitable.

A system is the way, maybe get your singer to carry more in, .
Back to your original post, I don't think there is anything you can take out of your set up really, if you need it, you need it.
I got rid of my par cans a while ago now, we use a pair of acme icolor 4's which are quicker to set up and transport.

John Denim.

I've used those myself and really liked the bright saturated light but didn't like that you couldn't angle the beams independently.

Setting up the spots is the bassist's job anyway

Biggest issue with the others seems to be the amount of PA. It may be that they think lots of kit automatically = [too] loud.

Actually it really hacks me off and the next time someone says it I think my response will have to be "right next gig my kit stays at home, you sort the PA if you're such a f*****g expert

Yes, as you will know there are plenty of landlords/concert secs out there who are pro sound experts.
I helped a friend out the other day at a local gig (they use the twin 18" ev eliminators) and as I was wheeling one of them in some clever sod asked, "why am I setting those up? Do you think you are playing Wembley?"

He proceded to inform me that he was in a band in the 60's, and that they use a 100w amp for FOH and It was plenty loud enough!
A lot of these numpties don't realise it's not pure volume you are after, it's quality.

John Denim.

Take a 100w amp in next time, they'll complain it sounds crap.

Things have moved on, alot of people are too ignorant to realise this. they get used to the sound but won't accept that any more gear is needed.

I liken this to the following analogy. In the 70s we used to gig with a couple of Sound City columns and a 100w valve amp and it sounded terrible but the punters didn't notice, probably because they were listening to their records on a Bush Dansette (for those old enough to remember them!). These days most folks have got at the very least a decent mini system if not a pukka HiFi at home so they will notice the difference. PA has really moved on and people do notice poor quality sound at gigs.

Hiya there, that's a great set up, and not too excessive in my opinion. I have worked with guys who carry twice that set up, and believe me, after a long night, everyone used to dread packing it up. On another note, I am a multi instrumenatlist who plays both electric and acoustic drums, for ease of set up, the yamaha dtx is a dream, with no faffing about. I am actually lookig for a set of crestars, so if your chap wants them to go to a good home, then pm me.
Thanks,
Dug