Hi All

Im new to the site, but when ever I have looked for info on speakers, I always seem to stumble onto your site. Their seems to be some very knowledgable (if thats how its spelt) on here!

I currently have a Nexo PS10 rig (pair of tops and a sub), im using it solo (vocalist and backing tracks) but Im going to be re-forming a duo soon and although the nexos sound fantastic (although they seem to struggle in larger venues) They wont be adequate for the duo as we will be doing venues from small pubs (80 people) to Holiday Parks (800 people).

I need some help, ive looked through the site (a lot) and Im getting good vibes about the RCFTT25 speakers, but I need some help on what would be best for my setup.

Firstly the PA needs to be portable as its going to be used for the duo and the tops will be used when I occasionally sing solo. When im solo I would still like a full sound (obviously without the sub theirs gonna be no tremendous kick) we will probably wnat to go with a pair of tops and one maybe two subs.

We may be playing instruments as well as singing, Bass and Guitar so that needs to be kept in consideration.

Sound wise, bit tricky here, I need:

- Warm sound (mainly vocals)
- Clairty
- Loud!! I like to feel their is plenty of headroom

Sorry for this long post!

Im torn between the KV2 EX12 speakers with either the 2.2 or 2.5 sub (one) and either of the RCF TT tops (12 and 15) with the TTs18.

Im a bit concerned with going with a 12" top and was wondering how the 12's compare from KV2 and RCF TT22.

All speakers need to be powered, cant be bothered lumping an amp around any more!

Thanks!! Simon

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This Topic : RCF TT+ - Nothing But Praise has some good info on the RCF TT series.

they're both very good systems. I'll just add that the horns on the EX series (and KV2 generally) are particularly bright and sharp.

The RCF TT22 and TT25 are the Passive Models from the TT range the Active Range is TT22A TT25A.

As for the Active range I have heard 2x 12" Tops and 2x 18" Subs - All active and it sounded great in a room of about 750 people.

I have also heard the 12" offerings from KV2 - without any subs and they sounded equally as good although a little sharp on the highs.

Josh

I have had considerable experience with KV2 systems, and I would always strongly recommend against them. Particularly the powered speakers.
In my experience they have a tendency to sound dry, cloudy and distorted. I always have to do considerable eqing just to make them sound "not half bad" and would never dream of leaving them un-eq'd.

Dave

As you are in a performing duo like myself I can understand your problem.

You need a great sound with a bit more headroom that you have to pack back into the van at the end of a very tiring evenings work, without doing your back in in the process!
I have not heard the KV2's so can't comment, a BR topic here covers them.
Out of the cabs I have recently demo'ed The TT+ have been my favourite, I'd say very similar sounding to Nexo PS range but with a lot more volume, although it a bit unfair to compare directly due to sizes of each cab.

Another very recent topic discusses the TT+ here.
Where abouts in the world are you Smoggy?





John Denim.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Thought my name may of given a clue im based in Middlesbrough. They call us smoggies coz of the industrial sites.

Im really liking the sound of the TT speakers but the problem is that the cheapest I can find them are £1829 each, then theirs the sub about £1649. I know you get what you pay for, but currently my singing is my only income.

The reason I was asking for a comparison to the KV2's is that im already sold with the TT stuff, heard a live band (yes live, thankfully their are still some honest groups up) the RCF TT sounded amazing, and the guy said they use them in all their venues including air bases, holiday camps, they said that the system has be excellent even at very high volumes! Which I believe.

I can get a pair of KV2 EX 12inch tops for £2400 which I thinks a bargain.

I missed the oppertunity of an ex-demo pair of TT25a speakers, I could of snapped the up for £2800, but I chose the nexo ps10 system over it.

Thanks for the welcome, once again fantastic site, I look forward to speaking to you all.

simon

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I am sorry but you have heard a different system to me. I have used several KV2 ex systems and they are an excellent 'Theatre' system. Don't know about live music though, never disliked them enough to kill them with a disco or whatever.

When you get companies like Swansea Opera and the WNO commenting on your sound in your venue I think you are doing something right aren't you? Oh yeah what is in our venues, all three of them? Ah yeah KV2!!!!!

Well I'm sorry that I disagree. But I don't believe there is enough sound quality to be able to

I have used these speakers with DJ's and a whole variety of live bands, and they have not worked, even nearly as well as Turbosound, Logic, D&B, Nexo, whatever.

I do not doubt that they may not be as terrible as I believe in all aplications, but this thread was specifically about a small scale band, and this sound system. And having been the sound engineer on a whole host of local bands, on a very similar sound system, and I am only talking about my experience of this system in those applications. I feel my response fully justified.

Also have you ever listened to these speakers without any kind of eq over them?

Dave

now just hold on a second. I do small scale band stuff here. the only EQ I touch when using a KV2 system is to tame that sharp high section. I have indeed also used it without FoH EQ at all. I personally don't see what the problem is. this is all just opinion of course.

what turbosound/logic/d&b/nexo systems are you comparing the EX range to? I just think we might be comparing apples and parsnips here.

I agree with mervaka here. The KV2 EX stuff is great for Theatre because of its wide dispersion, And I very rarey use full EQ on the system, because there doesn't seem to be a need.

'Well I'm sorry that I disagree. But I don't believe there is enough sound quality to be able to....'

How many DJ's do you know that has Sound Quality? With what system,Wharfedale £300 cabs?


If on the other hand you comparing KV2 ex to a DB line array system with a 5 piece Rock Band running through them, ala Budgie, Sound Garden etc. at Hyde Park, then yes the line array is meant for this job and the KV2 will not compare. In your local Club upto 500 people, there shouldn't be a problem at all and they easily have enough power (spl) and got the quality to do this job.

Are the (perhaps perceived) differences in sound quality of systems at this level not ever so slightly academic? It's my opinion that more or less any well specified system will sound good, and that things like efficiency, dispersion, potential for cross-hire etc are probably more important.

You shouldn't be concerned with going with a 12" Mid Driver at all. There has been a couple of discussions on here and the general concencous seems to be always buy speakers with a 12" Mid Driver if you are ever goint to use them with a Subwoofer. This is becuase 12" Drivers seem to have better clarity than their 15" counterparts and they are also lighter than the 15's.

Speakers with a 12" Mid Range Driver don't have as much 'kick' but are still plenty powerful enough to be used on their own.

Josh

Whilst I have never done a gig in a holiday park, don't they tend to have their own systems?

I don't think it's possible (or certainly not sensible) to try and make the same system do 80 and 800 person venues. It's going to be overkill for one and probably inadequate for the other. I think you need to look at the venues that you'll be doing the most and figure out what it is you need there. You've got a very good system with the PS10s, that will do quite happily a duo in reasonable sized rooms. Perhaps it might be more beneficial to hire something larger should you need it occasionally, rather than going out now and spending thousands that you haven't really got on larger speakers.

I'd imagine most haven sites have ceiling or some other sort of distributed system. bingo nights are far more frequent than music nights, surely?

Thanks for the replies, it seems their are some strong feelings here, hope I havent started anything. lol

Im hopefully going to hear the KV2 speakers soon, possibly tonight.

Problem im faced with now is just talking my dad (the better half of the duo) to part with his SR Technology speakers and falk out the money with me for either the RCF's or KV2's.

My dad wants us to use his powered SR Technology tops (550a 15" plus 1.5" 550watts) along side my PS10 system, but from what I have read, this wont work will it? Wont the systems be out of fase, as well as look stupid.

Im pretty much sold on the RCF stuff, if I can talk him into spending some money?

Any one want to be buy some SR Technology stuff, lol

Thanks again

If you place them in the right places they shouldn't be out of phase.

However, if you are worried about not being able to do that yourself or get the placement you need in every venue, then you could put the instruments through one system and the vocals through the other (make sure it's the more central of the two systems).
The last RHCP tour went round with two different PA's and Greg Ratt (FOH engineer) did exactly that - kick, bass and vox through one system, the rest of the band through the other!

Who cares what it looks like as long as it sounds good - you'll be turning the lights off or down!

[pendant]
It's Dave Rat
[pendant]

But yes he did use 2 PA systems.

His blog makes very interesting read for anyone starting out in sound.

Dave Rat's Blog

Make sure to read it from the start to get the whole story.

Josh

Well I heard a pair of KV2 ex 12's tonight, no sub. in a fairly large room. Single solo vocalist with backing tracks.

I was impressed, I can understand the comments on the high end being a little sharp, but with a little EQ its well tamable.

I was very impressed in the clarity of the vocal, crisp but yet their was plenty of depth. The backing was a little too quiet, but their was an amazing amount of bass, especially for 12" speaker!

The solo act was on with a trio who had a pir of DB 15" tops and a pair of 15" subs. their sound was terrible, but their was a lot of thump at the front, but it didnt carry down the room well in comparison to the pair of KV2's, so well impressed indeed.

I wouldnt mind being able to compare them to a pair of RCF TT22A speakers, im wondering if it would be a close sound, without the slight harshness. also wondering whehter the extra 250 watts would make a difference?

Where abouts in the world are you? Someone on here probably has some reccommendations on whhere to go to hear both systems side by side.

Josh

Im based in middlesbrough (north East England). That would be good, but its hard to tell without knocking out a few songs while singing to get a true feel for the system. :-)

Everyone who have read my post on KV2 on here will tell you how much I love these speakers and for theatre I use them all the time , albeit the ex10's and the ex2.2 subs. 250w difference may or may not make a difference depending on the SPL of the speakers. +10dB is twice as loud, so take the KV2, which I believe is 129 LONG TERM and check it out with the other speakers in question and you have your answer.

Don't forget you can add subs to your KV2 system later on as well which will give you extra 1000w @ 132SPL a side with the ex2.2 (double 12's) and they make a huge difference dispite being 'just 12's'. Can't comment for your other system, because I haven't used them.

Brilliant!
I'm sure you meant PEDANT, but it's so much funnier the way you wrote it!

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.



KV2 are based in Harrogate, not a million miles from you.
The Warehouse are now a dealer for the RCF stuff you're interested in; shouldn't be too hard to find one near Middlesborough either.
Viking sound are in the Northallerton area, so they might even stock one or both of the systems you are after.

I probably did but I had only just got up and didn't realise.

Sorry.

Josh

I wasn't going to comment on this topic but.......

Dave, seriously if you are using EX Series speakers that sound 'dry, cloudy and distorted' then I'm guessing there's something wrong with them, generally we don't make speaker systems that distort naturally. If you want to give me a call we can have a look at the systems you are using and check them out. Where are you based?

All the best

Andy

Have you ever seen the sound system in a holiday park?
They last one we were in had a load of old laney speakers on the walls that sounded dreadful, I would never consider slaving into that.


Not quite sure you are correct here ihatefisicks, although the ps10 is a nice sound, there simply won't be enough headroom to cater for some of the larger halls with this small (but good) system.

John Denim.

I went down to a caravan park in West Wales to check over their kit (they though they may need new) and they had 4 x Martin Force double 12" subs and 4 JBL Tops (cannot remember the models) in storage. They were using 4 Peavey Hysis 15" Tops though (yuk).

I took out the PV's, used the other speakers, added a crossover on them and what a great sound they had for spending £100+ labour on a x-over. Point being Some holiday parks have great gear, but cannot use it, or have got plonkers who like to fiddle.