hi all , new to the forum , so here goes.....

I want to run my powermate 1000 as a mixer only.
I run ev eliminators with a peavey 2600 running the bass bin's ( eq-out on the desk ),
I now want to add a peavey 3800 to run the bin's and transfer the 2600 to the top's,

I don't use any crossovers and just rely on the peavey's built in x-over ,

if I go out of eq-out/main-out on the desk , into the input of the 3800 , hi-out into the input of the 2600 ,
does anyone know if I will damage the dynacord's poweramp because it wont be connected to any speaker's ??????

any help and advise would be a godsend

dave.

I wouldn't have thought so, if it's a healthy unit in the first place.

it's only 12mths old and works fine , I'm just trying to get a better sound for larger venues .

Although not that model, I often run powered mixers without using the amp, and have no problems at all.

Another patch lead or two would allow you to use the Powermate's amp for monitors, and you have the possibility in that case to use the graphic eq for mons.

No, you will not damage the power amps.
All you are doing here is using the signal chain.

Is your Dynacord a mark II? as in, 700w per side?
I know what you are trying to do but the Dynacord has fantastic internal amps and doing this may not give you a better sound.
The Peavey is 900w a side @ 4 ohms but I think peavey measure all of their amps at a flat 1k.
You may find that the peavey 2600 on the tops is not as good as you thought but hey, have a go! and lets us know how it went!

John Denim.

The advice to always run with speakers connected only applies to amps that use output transformers (which are usually valve amps) and badly designed hifi amps.

Cheers

James.

ok , thats great info guy's

it is a mark 2 mixer and it is great @ 4ohms running in parrallel .

the sound is massive with the 2600 running the bin's .

in that configuration I'm running 350watts @ 8ohms to the tops from the mixer,

and 550 watts @8ohms from the 2600.

this good for medium size venues , but seems to run out of steam at larger venues

especially when I'm trying to get that mega kick drum thump in your chest sound .

so..... I,ve got the chance of obtaining a beringer crossover and eq , would that benifit my needs ??????

if I run into those before going into the two peavey p/amps ,

and finally , the 3800 kicks out 775watts @ 8ohms , my bin's are rated at 400rms , I wont blow them up ,will I ??

dave.

LOL.
There is a chance of this, but you will hear lots of distortion and nasty popping sounds which should stop you running the bins too hard.

Just be careful. I always use more amp power-speaker power ratio and have not blown up any cabs yet!
Sorry, I did not realise that your cabs are 8 ohms.
OK, so you are currently using the amp in the desk to power your tops, (mid/hi freqencies only) and 2600 crossed over to your bins.
I assume you have used the Dynacord to fire on all cylinders and powered up ALL 4 cabs, assuming you have internal xovers in your bins?
Otherwise I would suggest to still use amp in your desk for the tops, but use the 3800 for the bins.

There are many factors involved regarding thumping bass. Bobbsy may give a more detailed explanation.
Or try the search function for recent threads on this.
Factors include: source, quality of recording, (if using backing tracks) all kinds of things.

Are you in a band or using backing tracks incidently? An EQ unit and active crossover might help,
Maybe going a bit lower on the crossover point as I understand the Peavey is set at 150hz.

John Denim.

thanks john,

we are a four piece band ,

4 x vocals ( 1 lead )
1 x guitar
1 x bass
1 x kick drum
2 x snare
2 x toms

my channels are all full up !!!!

I'm not sure about the eliminator x-overs , there's a series of coils and capacitors and stuff on the back of the speakon input plates ???????

but these speakers are not the " I " version , just ev eliminator .

a point of interest .... we mike up the kick drum with an akg d112 ( sort of half in / half out of the sound hole ).

Which is the crossover.




And....

This should make no difference.

As for your question on blowing up speakers, remember a speaker only draws what it needs from the power amp, the only way to blow a speaker is either A) pushing the speaker too hard and trying to make it pull to much power, in which case you will hear alot of distorsion first, at which point you need to pull down the level. And B) the amp clips, which can also blow you drivers, this s done by trying to push the amp too hard, however a properly specced system should not have any problems with this, as the speakers should start to distrort before the amp clips.

The typical ratio of speaker power to amp power is the amp provides twice the power of the speaker, thefore seriously reducing the risk of the amp clipping.

Hope this helps
Rich

Why should it make no difference Rich?



If you had a desktop mic stand dave you could try this, as illustrated.



John Denim.

Sorry, I should have been more specific John.

I ment that it makes no difference to how he powers his different cabs, as the origional topic is based on.

Rich

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thanks for the tip john , will this give me that nice " click " sound with the mike in this position ???

dave.

p.s thanks everyone for the imput ........

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thanks rich , just to confirm then .....

2600 - 2 x 550watts to my 350rms tops

3800 - 2 x 775watts to my 400rms bin's

should run pretty well ????

dave.

The only real way to tell is to try it.

When faced with no hole in the front skin and loud guitars on stage I've given it a go. In my experience, you'll get that "nice" click, that squeaky pedal, and too much snare. Plus, when the drummer knocks it out of position as he sits down, you will not know until the first song starts. But it may work fine for you.

I would also try also your D112 further inside the drum & experiment with different positions there.

Yep, they have been my main problems with this micing position, although the pedal dosent have to be squeeky, just the general sound of the pedal can be picked up, along with a tonne of snare.

Have you tried putting the mic inside the drum? My usual combo is one inside and one just outside of the sound hole, then mix together, however you could see what inside the drum alone works like for you.

And yes, your amps should be fine powering those speakers, I probably would have prefered a bit more headroom on the tops, but at least you have some so your at an advantage already .

Cheers
Rich

thanks again , for all your input guy's .....

I will let you all know how I get on .

dave.

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just a thought, rich ....??

if I add an external crossover unit to my rig , wont it conflict with the crossover's in the back of the speakers ??

dave.

I will answer this Dave as Rich is not on at the moment.

the built in crossovers will filter out any external frequencies applied.
Although a little lower end might get through.
the overall sound won't be any worse, but may not be beneficial on the subs, although you would be able to manipulate the mid/high range.
John denim.

Did this get sorted, cos I want to do the same thing>
Every PA mixer/amp I've had in the past stated the importance of plugging speakers in, but the Dynacord appears to have a protection circuit...I've gone over to a Mackie powered system, but really like the reverbs on the Dynacord and the pre amps. Was going to sell or swap for something like an Allen + Heath Wizard, but if the Dynacord is ok operating without speakers being connected I may keep. Which outputs would I use? I know not the speaker outputs ..is it the 'main outs'?
Much appreciated.

Yep.

Main outs exactly.
They are there for the purpose of connecting other amps.
Not connecting speakers to the mixer will cause no damage at all.

John Denim.

Many thanks!
How does it work though...does that protection circuit kick in to disable the power amps?..or do they remain on?

They just stay on. No speakers connected just means they go through the motions without actually dissipating any power. It's just like unscrewing a lightbulb. You won't get any electricity dripping over the floor..dont worry.

Since this question comes up from time to time, it's worth stating that all modern (transformerless output stage) semiconductor based amplifiers have
had no trouble driving no load since their invention. Hmm...sorry for the double negative but I hope you see what I mean.

Obviously, if you're not sure, don't take the risk but the "don't drive with no load" mantra hasn't been completely true for many a year.

Bob

Since we are on this Bob, can you please explain the 'transformer output stage' amplifier?

Just for info for some of us young 'uns!
(not that you can remember the invention of the marconi...........)

John Denim.

I'm guessing it means an amp that uses transistors instead of valves in it's design.

Josh

So it is recommended to not run a valve amp without a load?
Why is this Josh?

John Denim.

Now that I don't have a clue about. I'm sure one of the more experainced members will be along to tell us though.

Josh

Bottom line - if the amp has a transformer output (which effectively means a valve amp, although I believe some early transistor amps used them) then running without an output load can fry the transformer or the output stage.

I honestly can't remember the reason in detail, and I'm not prepared to go digging around in the garage for the old textbooks but I suspect it's due to the (unterminated) output transformer just looking like a large inductor to the amp stage. Googling suggests driving an amp in this state can generate back emfs which are of sufficiently high voltage to cause arcing. Or it may just be that the amp tries to dissipate the output power in the transformer, and things get warm...

Just like to thank everyone on here who took the trouble to reply. Used the Dynacord purely as a mixer this weekend, and no problem at all. (Was waiting for big bangs, but they never happened)
Many thanks!

Glad it went well for you.
I have a powermate, I think its a very nice sounding desk, amps come in handy too.
A few on here don't like it, can't see why, I demo'ed A&H mixwiz before buying it and don't think the performance was THAT great, but people on here love 'em?

John Denim.

Dynacord powermates are very good little units

I have used all models

my fave is the small 600 watt version

very useful for little stuff

the dual fx are very good
and the ins and outs are also very usable

I would say the best small powered desk at the time
and still holding its own now

Always on the look out for them if anyone is selling

Cliveybaby