I was told by a sound engineer experienced in using Nexo PS15's that he thought it was a better idea to use 2 x PS15bass rather than LS1200 with the regular PS15 tops as his view is you get far more useable bass using the PS15 bass.
Are there anyother PS15 users who would agree with this?

If you are gonna buy Nexo Ps 15's bass I would suggest you to buy a couple of Ps 15's instead. Just unplug the horn and you will get a Ps 15 Bass. A couple of Ps 15's would be more useful for you in some other occasions.

I'm a PS15/LS1200 user, and I can see where your friend is coming from. In the rig I use, the top cabs are run off a Vortex 6 and the (single) LS is run off a yamaha (p4500), so there are some issues in sub deployment due to system design compromises anyway. I would suggest, from when I've heard them properly amped and doubled up (ie 2 instead of 1 LS) then you get undistorted, usable bass down rather low really! It could be that your engineer is used to using a nexo system with wimpy sub bass like mine, or that he's not used to undistorted bass after always mixing on different (front loaded?) designs which distort more, or simply that he likes the 120Hz Xover point for the 15bass more than the 80 which the Nexo controller gives for the sub. Of course he is right - you get heaps of 'bass' with the PS15/15bass system, but it would be lacking in sub bass - the LS extends to 35Hz usable, and the PS bass is indeed just a ps15 without the horn.

Probably from a rider friendly view, the 2xPS15 over 2xLS1200, properly amped with FPs or Vortexes would be better, and more flexible in deployment, as you can just use satellite poles over each sub. Many companies are hiring PS15/LS1200 rigs, and I've yet to see a PS15 bass rig for hire. Of course, I have a preference not to use front loaded 15" subs anyway for live work ; )

So, in conclusion to that rambling mess of a post, although I can see why he's come to his conclusions, I would take 2LS1200s over 2 PS15 BASS any day!

YMMV,

Matt

Thank you for your very informative and interesting reply Matt.
I have a similar set up to yours except I am using a Vortex 4 to power my single LS1200.
I probably seem a bit of a dork for asking but is there any chance you can briefly explain to me the different type of sub designs available ie front ported etc are and the advantages and disadvantages with each?

While I don't claim to understand entirely, have been reading this wiki post as well as this post, hope it helps.

After much head scratching (and a delve into the horrendous maze that is the nexo website to find the exploded view) I have concluded that the Nexo sub is a 4th order bandpass enclosure. These have medium efficiency (are quite loud per watt), and, when well designed, like the nexo, have a rather reasonable frequency response. Further details in the two links referenced below.

An example of a horn loaded sub would be the lab sub, which is widely regarded to be one of the best horn loaded subs around, which uses a 12" driver, and 1 cab is said to beat the pants off of 4 2x18" cabs

Front loaded subs come at you everywhere you look in the live SR world - they are cheap, require little knowledge to design an effective one,easy to build (if you diy) and everyone has used them...like...for ever.

It boils down basically to horn loaded, front loaded and bandpass in the live SR world, and knowing the basic characteristics of each should get you by. [/famous last words!]

Matt

Rinky, I have 2 PS 15's with 2 Ls 1200s and both are powered by Vortex 6 amps. While I cannot dazzle with tech talk, which is fascinating, but I get lost, I think that my system sounds better with both LS's than with one.

I have tried the Nexo Bass boost top and I did not think much of it to be honest.

I have a mate that loves his raggea, and whenever he can he uses my system to pump up the jam on his raggea nights.

All things being equal, Rinky, I think that you'd be better off with two LS-1200's

??

Thanks for your advice drowner!
I guess I was kind of hoping the PS15bass would do the job as well as the LS1200's as couple of PS15bass instead of LS1200's would mean a big reduction in space and weight in my trailer,not to mention how much easier it would be to move them.

As with all Nexo kit, you have to drive it to get the best noise out of it. The PS range is a great tool and I would always use 2 + 2.

What do you mean by "2 + 2" Capt?

I had the use of a rig that consisted of 2 x PS15, 2 x bass extenders and 1 x LS1200 per side for a couple of years.

Your mileage may vary, but the bass extenders saw a lot more use than the subs. It's worth mentioning that the subs just add headroom, they don't actually extend the low end frequency range of the system compared to using extenders.

I've been told that the LS1200s really come into their own once you start stacking four of them together and getting the coupling, but using them singly I was never that impressed.

................and so the dilemma continues!!

I think I will probably go for another LS1200 then I have the option to stand mount the PS15's on the bins.
I can always get a pair of PS15bass in the future...................friggin eck I'm skint!

"I would take 2LS1200s over 2 PS15 BASS any day!" Quote from Matt Riley

Just a thought, why would you want 2 18's as subs? a sub bins has a totally different wave formation to a higher frequency and only 1 be used with a pair of satillites. Or was you thinking of summing? That's still a lot of sub though, don't you think?

Hi Trunker

I just typed a long post about why - and then lost it! So here is the short version:

'Just a thought, why would you want 2 18's as subs?' - The use of 2 18" subs with small (12/1 or 15/1) systems a very well known and accepted way of doing it, and although nexo only recommend that you need one, I feel that it is more practical to have the two if you wish to use satellite poles (although you do get the issues of lobing and power alleys which can be alleviated by placing both subs together). The reason from a purely sonic perspective is that I'm an engineer that likes systems which can produce decent sub bass. Although the LS1200 extends to 35hz usable, in the environment which I have used it I have found it lacking, even when properly powered, and so want another one to increase the sub bass output.

When you say a 'totally different wave formation to a higher frex' do you mean that it behaves differently at the higher frequencies? This isn't strictly relevant in my application, as the nexo crossover (which should be used with all ps15 rigs) sums the stereo sub bass and crosses over at 80hz, which is well within the usable limit of the enclosure.

I guess really its just because I like lots of sub bass

Regards,

Matt

Back in 1994, I wrote this (with spelling and grammer fixes):



The subs are bigger now than they were in '94...

That's interesting Matt as I have never felt the sub lacking with just the one LS1200,just yesterday I did sound for an outdoor gig with 2 PS15's and 1 LS1200 and was absolutely flabbergasted with the amount of bass and quality of sound I achieved from this setup.
Usually it is used for my 3 piece comprising of b-tracks,keys,guitar and vocals and because I am performing I never really get a chance to mix and sample the sound from out front.
I must admit I was anxious I would struggle to get a full sound without an additional LS1200 but my concern was quickly dispelled.The fullness and dispersion was excellent and this was with a 5 piece rock band with miked drums,4 vox,keys,bass and lead guitar.
One thing I would say is I think it would have definately benefited from a PS15 bass as that "in your chest" thump wasn't quite there and an additional LS1200 would probably have looked better and been more convenient to mount the other PS15 on but it wasn't really needed sound wise.

Aha! This could be the reason for our different preferences. I was thinking more about an application with a fully miked drum kit as well as bass, keys, guitar and vox. The reason for the difference more than likely comes from the way that backing trax are fairly heavily mastered so that they can be played on stereos, and so if they have drums in, may have fundamental kick drum frequencies missing (I think they are normally mastered to be fairly strong at circa 160 hz, and so many people who have only listened to recorded kick think that is what it sounds like, when in reality it extends much lower. )

I think Si Tucker's website sums it up best with regards to the different, valid applications of one or two subs:

http://www.matrixuk.f9.co.uk/systems.htm



I wholeheartedly agree with that statement, although unfortunately I don't have the privilege of working with DJs at the moment. My aim with the 2 subs in this application was to reproduce accurate sub bass frequencies, specifically those fundamental to the kick drum, at a tasteful level to the rest of the music. Honestly, I do mix with my ears sometimes!

Cheers,

Matt

Yes,Simons site sums it up pretty well.
The thing that surprised me was just how full the sound was Outside with only 1 LS1200.
I wasn't looking for massive volume or projection and was aware that obviously it would be fuller again with an additional LS1200 but I was amazed just how great it sounded with just the one. As I said I have seen a few others reporting that it was pretty much essential to use 2 LS1200's when micing a band with live drums but I didn't find this to be the case.
It most definately is a different kettle of fish when using backing tracks through the system as they seem to eat up a lot of the bottom end which is what I think you were trying to say.