[pscandrett]

Just thought I'd post on here based on a conversation I had with a colleague the other day. At work we have fire drills (obviously) but people do tend to get a bit blase about them so we pondered getting a smoke bomb and setting it off to see what sort of reaction it would get (ie to get a 'real' fire drill' going).

We've got a couple of smoke machines - a ZR22 and ZR33 for example - which would probably be the easiest thing to use, but does anyone else have any ideas?

I'm even toying with the idea of putting it in the server room, making some XLR5-RJ45 and RJ45-XLR5 connectors and running the DMX over cat 5 through our patch panel so I don't even have to be nearby! (They're both the same impedance, ish, aren't they - 110-120Ohm?)

Any other thoughts? A gerb in the waste paper basket is probably going a bit too far (and getting a bit dangerous)!

Thanks :-)

[bruce]

So....you intentionally generate some smoke....fire alarm goes off... orderly, if slow and blase, evacuation drill proceeds.

Then someone notices smoke. Word spreads that it's a real fire. Evacuation speeds up. Nobody "panics", but people get agitated. Pushing on the stairwell.

Someone falls. Crush on the stairs. Someone ends up in hospital.

Someone decides to sue.....

I wouldn't go there.

Bruce.

[pscandrett]

bruce, on 16 Apr 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

So....you intentionally generate some smoke....fire alarm goes off... orderly, if slow and blase, evacuation drill proceeds.

Then someone notices smoke. Word spreads that it's a real fire. Evacuation speeds up. Nobody "panics", but people get agitated.  Pushing on the stairwell.

Someone falls. Crush on the stairs. Someone ends up in hospital.

Someone decides to sue.....

I wouldn't go there.

Bruce.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that's very unlikely given the context but thanks very much for the input - hadn't really thought of that.

[bruce]

pscandrett, on 16 Apr 2005, 11:17 AM, said:

I think that's very unlikely given the context but thanks very much for the input - hadn't really thought of that.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously I don't know your situation and context, but I am speaking from experience.

I work in a university. We get lots of fire alarms, especially around exam time, and in the "silly season" before the students go away for the summer. It's a pain. Nobody likes evacuating, especially when you work on the 5th floor.

So when the alarm goes off, people wander back to offices, grab their coats, maybe finish what their doing, and get out. Some even grab a cup of tea before leaving. And students are worse. I've had to turn off the main power supply to a PC lab to get the students to leave. We've had to physically restrain one guy who was trying to go UP the stairs to get his coat while several hundred people were trying to go down.

In short, nobody is bothered by fire drills.

And then this happened.



The following day, it looked like this:



Fortunately, nobody was hurt. But people's awareness rose.

3 days later, our fire alarm went off. Everyone left immediately.

It had been set off by the cleaners, who had been making (burning) toast. You could smell the smoke in the stairwell. Nobody paniced, but there was a real sense of fear. People saying "I can smell burning", and pushing past others on the stairs.

Scary. And that was just burnt toast....

Bruce.

[Jivemaster]

Prob better things to do
1/ Plan people to actually check the building is clear, especially the toilets.
2/ Try assuming that the fire is in one of the popular doorways, try to plan to evacuate without using, say, the main door.
3/ Train some people in fire fighting. -Well the use uf the legally required provided fire extinguishers anyway. A cigarette butt in a waste bin might smoulder some old paper and be easily extinguished with judicious use of the correct extinguisher, or if left it could fire the whole building. Still you have to recognise your limits.

[AC03]

I had a cigarette in a waste bin once in a dress rehearsal for a musical.
It seems that the most uneducated people about fires and branches off that are those that are perfoming. THe backstage crew (the majority) knew what to do

the actors, running around like a load of headless pidgeons

Alan

[Locksmith]

bruce, on 16 Apr 2005, 11:34 AM, said:

I work in a university. We get lots of fire alarms, especially around exam time, and in the "silly season" before the students go away for the summer. It's a pain. Nobody likes evacuating, especially when you work on the 5th floor.

So when the alarm goes off, people wander back to offices, grab their coats, maybe finish what their doing, and get out. Some even grab a cup of tea before leaving. And students are worse.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can agree entirely with that. I was recently puched by a student while trying to evacuate our union. Fortunately I have had some training for such situations (Provided by someone else, not the union) and was able to safely defend myself.

It seemed to take ages to evacuate the building. Most people drifted out when the music went off (automatically) but there was a number of people who just 'hung around' and didn't want to leave. As far as we were concerned, this was a real alarm. We found out later that two fire alarm call points had been broken. If this had been a real fire, I dread to think what might have happened.

[Jram]

pscandrett, on 16 Apr 2005, 12:02 PM, said:

At work we have fire drills (obviously) but people do tend to get a bit blase about them so we pondered getting a smoke bomb and setting it off to see what sort of reaction it would get (ie to get a 'real' fire drill' going).
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure where you're based, but I had fire safety training (and warden training) from Learn2Bsafe, a Glasgow company.

If you can get the funds together, might be worth investing in training from them, or seeing if there's a similar company in your vicinity.

For clubs and theatres (at least punter-wise if not staff-wise) generally turning off the music/sound and putting on all the lights encourages people to leave, especially if it's accompanying an alarm..

[Brixton]

Quote

We've got a couple of smoke machines - a ZR22 and ZR33 for example - which would probably be the easiest thing to use, but does anyone else have any ideas?

Whilst sitting in on a particularly boring bricklayers course the topic turned to chimneys. (scintillating stuff huh)
Apparently when testing the efficacy of a chimney's back passage - flue the approved tool is smoke bomb. Perhaps you could have a chat with your local builders merchants re. price, volume/thickness of smoke etc.
A carefully placed one near the A/C/ ducts would certainly have an effect when coupled with an alarm

[pscandrett]

Thanks to everyone who's commented so far - it's really useful. Keep going (if you've got anything to add!) :-)

I'm not a fire-person[1] at work, we're not a theatre (the context for this is a combined office area/warehouse really) and I'm only posting as a technician who might be getting involved in 'providing the smoke' - if you see what I mean! I'll point my manager (the H&S guy) at this thread for his perusal; there's some very valid points been raised and useful suggestions.

Thanks.

[1] if you see what I mean - 'just' an interested ordinary employee from that perspective.

[JDLX]

Seems like a lot of effort just for a one off, people arnt going to fall for it twice. Also if anyone gets a whiff of the smoke they will probably realise it isnt for real

[skdean]

I have had problems evacuating people from a venue when the alarms go off. One time they tried to get back in while alarms still ringing, I ended up restraining this student. And another time recently the audience just stood around as the bells rang, we had to go up to people and tell then to leave the venue. And the abuse we got from some people, you almost wish the place to burn down with them in

[cafc-dan]

My theatre had a problem with someone switching an old extractor fan on under the stage thinking it was a light switch (it was a switch in the wings). They carried on the rehearsal but 20 mins later there was smoke coming out of the floor of the stage and out the front. The actors (pretending to be fire investigators) walked around the stage for another 5 mins looking for what it could be asking if the lamps could be burning the stage. While myself and some colleagues at the back decided to call the fire brigade. We then "tried" to evacuate with no-one paying any attention at all. Fire brigade came in ripped the front of the stage off found it and took it out. We now have properly labeled switches with any potentially dangerous ones taped up.

[Nick S]

My City Council has a "likeskills centre" for primary school/early secondary school kids in which they used to do something very similar - albeit in far smaller groups, they fill a room full of smoke, chuck a few s/fx of burning wood, and set a fire alarm off...always seemed a little harsh to me, because it's set up by the children walking with the fire officer to this room, who tells them all they're going to see the caretaker's cat and kittens, and then he encourages the kids to wander into the fire to save the cats (at which point he informs those kids unwise enough to follow that they all just died).

Perhaps understandably, it freaked a lot of children out, and so they stopped that particular part of the course...

[paulears]

Maybe not the sort of thing to do just at this moment in time?