[CLC Lighting]

I am doing the lighting and stage effects for a big event next friday and will be operating pyros and having to set them up, I have never used pyros before and obviously dont want to mess up with pryos because it could be disasterous, any advice would be amazing.

Thanks

CLC Lighting

[shaggy555]

CLC Lighting, on 20 April 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I am doing the lighting and stage effects for a big event next friday and will be operating pyros and having to set them up, I have never used pyros before and obviously dont want to mess up with pryos because it could be disasterous, any advice would be amazing.

Thanks

CLC Lighting

IMHO if you don't know, don't do it!!!

or

Get someone in who does know!

Remember, PYROS CAN KILL!!!!

[Brian]

CLC Lighting, on 20 April 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

...big event...operating pyros...never used pyros before...disastrous...any advice would be amazing.

Is your insurance company happy about this?

[ramdram]

I am not sure about any advice being amazing...but you need to know what you are doing certainly.

Suggest you contact Le Maitre or similar...google moment...and explain exactly what you are expected to do.

Listen to their advice and follow it to the letter.

IF this "big event" has anything to do with your employers, as in the council, then suggest further you have a natter with the "H&S bod"...bound to be a need for an RA.

If you have an audience of thousands, in a public place, and some of them "might be under the influence" then you will soon learn that the actual setting and firing of the pyros is but one aspect of the event.

Having only a week to prepare might be on the tight side...might have been a notion to have got this organised a bit earlier.

[kerry davies]

From the LeMaitre Code of Practice the very first item is;

Quote

1.. Pyrotechnics must only be used by competent adults. If misused they can be very dangerous
and cause serious injuries.

Note the "must" rather than should and the use of the word competent;

Quote

‘a combination of knowledge, skills and practical experience which a person has to have to be able to do a particular task properly. This includes not only the routine task, but also covers unexpected situations and changes.

Assuming that you are working in a self-employed capacity then you, as employer, must (not should);

Quote

.....provide such information, instruction, training and supervision as is necessary to ensure, so far as reasonably practicable the H&S at work of all employees. This includes enabling the Competent Person to fulfil his role.

In short, Shaggy is right, get a man who can at this late stage in the process, you haven't got time to get up to speed.

[shaggy555]

Also, check the terms of your Public Liability Insurance... (assuming you have any!)

[OllieDuff]

CLC Lighting, on 20 April 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I am doing the lighting and stage effects for a big event next friday and will be operating pyros and having to set them up, I have never used pyros before and obviously dont want to mess up with pryos because it could be disasterous, any advice would be amazing.

Thanks

CLC Lighting

Unless some Proper Planning and Preparation has been done by this stage, then you may well have missed deadlines for council applications for a pyro license etc. My local authority asks for no less than 2 weeks' notice if you want to use pyros, realistic firearms etc., so it's entirely possibly that ANY use of pyrotechnics at your event may be in violation of the entertainments license for the event.

Assuming that someone has sorted this out (which I doubt, if the person in charge of organising the pyro has no experience of using pyro before), the answer is still to get a man who can/does/has the appropriate ticket. No details here because it's a public forum, but I have seen someone almost blow someone else's fingers off using comparatively small theatrical flashes, even with all necessary safety equipment in place - characterising "all the gear and no idea"!

Just because pyrotechnics doesn't involve heavy lifting or high voltage, and Lemaitre make their "Early Learning Centre" push-button controllers to keep it simple, doesn't mean that it requires any less planning, forethought and care in its implementation than installing chain hoists, wiring into the mains or any other department. I apologise if this is too soon after Indiana, but would you erect a truss over your stage without the advice of a competent professional? There are rules about how you safely set up, fire and dispose of pyrotechnics - deviate from them at your legal and physical peril.

You may be under pressure from the client to deliver a pyrotechnic display, especially if it's written into the specification/contract. However, unless they are willing to spend the money on getting both the gear and the expertise required to do it safely, you owe it to yourself, as well as staff, performers and guests at the event, to refuse. I've been quite lucky in that I've had quite a lot of informal instruction with pyrotechnics, as well as the chance to practise their use in a live (though closely supervised) environment, but had I not then I would definitely want to have undergone some kind of formal training, plus a few gigs schlepping for a more experienced pyrotechnician, before I was let loose on the general public. As you have correctly identified, an accident could be disastrous.

[Wingwalker]

I'm curious, how big is the event?

Is it indoors or outdoors?

What kind of pyro effects were you looking to achieve?

[dmoorcroft]

I'd echo what others have said - if you're having to ask these questions then you shouldnt be doing pyros. I know its a really cool thing to be able to tell your mates that you get to set "fireworks" off and be paid for it but could you life with yourself for causing devestating consequences?

The last risk assessment I wrote for pyrotechnics in a venue was over 2000 words long, all staff were given a full briefing and I had several safety mechanisms in place to ensure the event ran safely (which resulted in me being unable to fire one of my cues due to people who hadnt been given a safety briefing being present onstage.

Seek proper advice and get competent people in to do the job. I wouldnt want a non-trained person operating pyros anywhere near any of my family, friends, or customers/staff in any of the venues I work in.

[Ynot]

OllieDuff, on 20 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Unless some Proper Planning and Preparation has been done by this stage, then you may well have missed deadlines for council applications for a pyro license etc. My local authority asks for no less than 2 weeks' notice if you want to use pyros, realistic firearms etc., so it's entirely possibly that ANY use of pyrotechnics at your event may be in violation of the entertainments license for the event.

To clarify one point, there is NO such thing as a pyrotechnics licence in the UK. Yet.
That doesn't mean that as part of their general rules of engagement some councils may insist on certain internal rules & regs be observed (which I'd likely support in the case of pyro), but bandying the term 'licence' when it's non-existent is a bit of a fallacy.

But as for the general question, mine is another hearty agreement with those who have already said that if YOU are not competent to specify, reig and operate the effects then YOU most certainly MUST NOT agree to do so.

One thing that might help you, and something that you really should do if you're to remain here on the BR (welcome, my the way) is complete your profile, specifically with a location. Because there MAY be an experienced pyro tech in your area who MIGHT be able to assist.

[TomG]

Ynot, on 20 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

OllieDuff, on 20 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Unless some Proper Planning and Preparation has been done by this stage, then you may well have missed deadlines for council applications for a pyro license etc. My local authority asks for no less than 2 weeks' notice if you want to use pyros, realistic firearms etc., so it's entirely possibly that ANY use of pyrotechnics at your event may be in violation of the entertainments license for the event.

To clarify one point, there is NO such thing as a pyrotechnics licence in the UK. Yet.


<SNIP>

There may be conditions attached to a venue's licence requiring them to notify the relevant authorities when they wish to use pyro's or other similar effects, this could also apply to insurance clauses. So No there may not be a pyro license of sorts, there still may be conditions on the venue or event, that require notification.

[Ynot]

TomG, on 20 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Ynot, on 20 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

OllieDuff, on 20 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Unless some Proper Planning and Preparation has been done by this stage, then you may well have missed deadlines for council applications for a pyro license etc. My local authority asks for no less than 2 weeks' notice if you want to use pyros, realistic firearms etc., so it's entirely possibly that ANY use of pyrotechnics at your event may be in violation of the entertainments license for the event.

To clarify one point, there is NO such thing as a pyrotechnics licence in the UK. Yet.

There may be conditions attached to a venue's licence requiring them to notify the relevant authorities when they wish to use pyro's or other similar effects, this could also apply to insurance clauses. So No there may not be a pyro license of sorts, there still may be conditions on the venue or event, that require notification.

Hmmm...
That's pretty much what I said...

[OllieDuff]

Ynot, on 20 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

TomG, on 20 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Ynot, on 20 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

OllieDuff, on 20 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Unless some Proper Planning and Preparation has been done by this stage, then you may well have missed deadlines for council applications for a pyro license etc. My local authority asks for no less than 2 weeks' notice if you want to use pyros, realistic firearms etc., so it's entirely possibly that ANY use of pyrotechnics at your event may be in violation of the entertainments license for the event.

To clarify one point, there is NO such thing as a pyrotechnics licence in the UK. Yet.

There may be conditions attached to a venue's licence requiring them to notify the relevant authorities when they wish to use pyro's or other similar effects, this could also apply to insurance clauses. So No there may not be a pyro license of sorts, there still may be conditions on the venue or event, that require notification.

Hmmm...
That's pretty much what I said...

Yes, what I meant was that your entertainment license for the venue may not permit pyrotechnics, so you have to either apply for special permission (as we do in my venue, and if your existing license allows it) or modify the license (which I would imagine takes frigging ages, local authorities being local authorities).

Although I'm led to understand that round here the need for special permissions for effects is so that if the police get a phone call saying "I heard shots/a bomb going off in the theatre", they don't sent armed police in through the front door

[Ynot]

OllieDuff, on 21 April 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Although I'm led to understand that round here the need for special permissions for effects is so that if the police get a phone call saying "I heard shots/a bomb going off in the theatre", they don't sent armed police in through the front door

I really think that someone's pulled your chain there!
The very fact that theatrical effects include loud bangs and flashes almost as a regular occurrence would mean any self respecting police officer would be very unlikely to over react in that way.

[Jivemaster]

There is nothing in the legitimate pyro industry that resembles a HE bomb in any realistic way! There is nothing as loud.

To the OP: being competent means that you know most of the answers, from training and experience, AND you have somewhere to ask the odd esoteric question on the topic. Are you doing this task as an employee of the firm, or as a self employed contractor (DJ/lighting technician). Are you certain that the pyro is covered by your insurance or by the event insurance.