Conversion to fly towers, Info needed please! Options

[si_cole]

Hi,

One of our local theatre's is in the pipeline for a re-development. Currently, the height on the stage from the stage floor to the grid is approx 15ft which restricts companies on their cloth and scenery hire.

If the theatre were to be converted shall we say to a fly tower so we could fly 20ft scenery and cloths in

- what would be a very approximate cost for this type of work?
- would this change the acoustics of the theatre?
- if a touring company were to come in for a week's show would the theatre have to provide fly people who were suitably trained (and where does the law stand on this?)
- instead of spending the money on this type of re-development, what options would you go for instead of a fly tower?

TIA

[TallPaul]

- what would be a very approximate cost for this type of work?

It's impossible to speculate on this, every theatre is different. If you are adding a fly tower, this is likely to significantly change the exterior of the building so you might get caught up in planning regulations. Is it a listed building, etc?

- would this change the acoustics of the theatre?

Can't see how it would, if you're talking in terms of FOH acoustics. Might require a rethink of stage monitors, but can't see this being a huge issue.

[themadhippy]

our new 18 way countertweight system cost around £100,000, weve already got the fly tower and grid

[Brian]

If the theatre were to be converted shall we say to a fly tower so we could fly 20ft scenery and cloths in

- what would be a very approximate cost for this type of work?

It's currently got 15ft of clearance; to fly a 20ft cloth you're going to need something approaching 45ft as a miniumum, ie a three-fold increase, that's a big increase.

It ain't going to be cheap. There is every possibility that the foundations and existing structure will not take the additional loading.

Find yourself a structural engineer and a QS.

[Andrew C]

As above; and yes, the acoustic is very likely to change. You could consider baffles for concerts & the like.

[andy_s]

- would this change the acoustics of the theatre?

Can't see how it would, if you're talking in terms of FOH acoustics. Might require a rethink of stage monitors, but can't see this being a huge issue.

room accoustics is directly related to the volume of the space - in order to maintain the existing accoustic qualities, an accoustician would need to analyse the current space, then design the amount of reflective and absorbative materials that would need to be incorporated into the refurbished building in order to keep the sound distribution characteristics, Reverberation Time, etc. They can point little lazers around models to show you where all the sound is going to end up....

[Pete McCrea]

[engineers hat on] As mentioned above, adding 3 times the height to the structure will add quite a load to the foundations etc. THEN add the dynamic loading that the flying apparatus will add, and before you know it theres quite a nice little project for an engineering firm.....[/engineers hat]

[paulears]

what's an 'enginners' hat? you spell 'beginner' with a b and 'engineer' with a 'sir'.

p

[Pete McCrea]

Sorry. Failure to spell corrected.......

[Ellis]

If you ask an expert, they will say you ideally need 2.5 times the cloth height above the stage to allow the cloths to fly completely out of view (I.e. 65 feet!).

Also, make sure you specify it as a working (I.e. load bearing) grid, not just an access grid, otherwise spot lines will be very difficult!

As to whether you need to provide trained flymen, the answer is down to the contract between venue and producers (I flew panto working for the theatre, but flew an am-dram musical for the society). The venue will, however have to satisfy themselves that the flymen are competent! (flying equipment comes under the same H&S regulations as cranes)

You will also have a significant annual inspection and testing cost, and need to conduct regular maintenance.

[Guest_lightnix_*]

- what would be a very approximate cost for this type of work?

Very approximately: f ck ng enormous You could easily treble hippy's c/weight-only price.

- would this change the acoustics of the theatre?

Couldn't say, although I'd err on the side of caution and assume that it would.

- if a touring company were to come in for a week's show would the theatre have to provide fly people who were suitably trained (and where does the law stand on this?)

I won't speculate on the precise legal position but AFAIK fly crew normally come with the house.

- instead of spending the money on this type of re-development, what options would you go for instead of a fly tower?

In line with some of the ideas expressed in this thread, bear in mind that that any money invested in the building must bring in enough of a return to at least cover the investment and ought to make an increased profit in the future, by adding value to the building through the additional services it can offer potential clients (and I don't just mean am-drams).

Some other thoughts...
- If a fly tower proved unviable, what would the options be for increasing the depth of the stage, wing space and loading/storage areas?
- Would a temporary revolve be of any use?
- Kabuki? Scenic "scrollers"?
- Could other backstage facilities be improved? e.g. dressing rooms, showers, rehearsal space?
- Could the technical facilities be improved, not just in terms of lighting / sound / projection hardware, but "infrastructure" items like plenty of tie lines for sound, data and video? Socapex points around the stage and auditorium, which run back to a patch bay? The installation of WAN/LAN facilities? These "little" things could make the building into a very nice conference venue, which could bring in higher-paying corporate clients and provide funding for further improvements.
- Leading on from that: could the building be made more multi-purpose?
- Do the FOH facilities need a facelift?
- What else needs doing to the building?
- How will the improvements be marketed?

Just my €0.02

[Jivemaster]

Hi,

If the theatre were to be converted shall we say to a fly tower so we could fly 20ft scenery and cloths in

Adding say 60 feet to the building height should keep your local architects happy for a year or so, add a year for planning and building consents and appeals, and you have a project that will keep your theatre dark for 2 - 5 years for a demolish and rebuild with - find a wwII uxb / asbestos / unknown underground watercourse etc - Cost over-run of 20 - 2000% .
When / if you reopen your regulars may be comfortable in their temp new homes and may not be able or willing to pay your new charges.