Motorised Cloth Rolling/Tumbling Options

[alexadamson]

I have a show in May at a large performance space (an arena) that doesn't have flying, but rigging and height is not a problem. I've had a look at a few of the other topics on this line, but nothing really meets the scale I'm looking at.

I need to arrange to have two separate cloths (one a starcloth, second a black gauze) travel out. They don't need to travel back in, but kabuki drop or tab track isn't really the look that's needed for the show.

I am after recommendations of companies that would be able to provide/hire me with a large scale motorised system. When I say large, both cloths would be full "arena stage" width, exact dimensions are still to be confirmed.

I am also after any suggestions for 'flying' cloths out in a space where counterweight flying isn't a option, but there is lots of possibilities for other types of rigging, and budget really isn't a restriction.

Thanks in advance.

[Wilflet]

'and height is not a problem'

do you have enough height to go for mother grid out as far as it can go, drape from the front of this to hide things behind. subhung motors (variable speed if you need them) down to your two drape trusses, then when the drapes are 'out' they go up behind the front drape without needing to roll?

Im not sure how well I explained that idea, but id think of it sort of the way that if you had a hemp fly system your bar wouldve gone up and be obscured by the pros arch (which the front drape off the mother grid would be in this case)

[alexadamson]

Thanks Will,

To be honest, there is the potential to "fly" them out in full as the drapes may only be half stage height, but only if the video screens are hung on stage (as opposed to to being either side of the stage), but I was also after options if this wasn't the case, and so I wouldn't have to mask above the stage.

[Seano]

I have a show in May at a large performance space (an arena) that doesn't have flying, but rigging and height is not a problem.

Are you talking about the show (stand up comedy), and the large performance space that is obvious from your profile?

I need to arrange to have two separate cloths (one a starcloth, second a black gauze) travel out. They don't need to travel back in, but kabuki drop or tab track isn't really the look that's needed for the show.

Kabuki drop and tab track are the two most obvious options for the gauze in this kind of space. There's a good reason for that - they're *much* more reliable, quicker and easier than the alternatives. It's really very unusual for an arena show to use theatrical style flying with good reason. An austrian would probably be the next obvious choice, after you've ruled out kabuki and tab track. Its much trickier and less reliable than either of the more common choices, but still easier and more reliable than a roller in my experience. Rollers become more difficult as the stage gets wider - if you're talking about a 60' wide stage my gut feeling is: forget it, a roller would be a nightmare.

None of those (kabuki, tab track *or* austrian) would really be an option for the starcloth. Starcloth is too heavy, too bulky and insufficiently flexible for any of those to work well imo. I don't quite understand why you need to fly it out, can you clarify? Is there a painted backdrop behind it or something?

If you really must, a false prosc is probably your only option (assuming you do want to mask it when its 'out'). Its possibly a bit rash to assume that height is not a problem. Relative to the size of the stage the absence of a fly tower means an arena roof is rather lower than a theatrical grid, which may force you to have the height of your false prosc a bit lower than you might ideally want it.

Height is *always* a problem (well, almost) if you want to take a 'fly tower' approach to your design in a venue without a fly tower. Tall arenas have tall seating, so that a false prosc low enough to allow the effect is always likely to look a bit odd and may create sightline issues if you're selling a lot of tickets and folk are sitting way up there at the back.

I am after recommendations of companies that would be able to provide/hire me with a large scale motorised system. When I say large, both cloths would be full "arena stage" width, exact dimensions are still to be confirmed.

The standard issue "arena stage" is 60' wide by 40' deep, though it is fairly common for stand up comedy to play on a slightly smaller stage.
Who's providing the lighting? If its one of the larger rock & roll type lighting companies, you might be best off talking to them in the first instance.

Am I right in thinking the arena is *vastly* bigger than most of the other venues on the tour? Will there be a DVD shoot?
If its one of the large lighting/rigging companies usually associated with the larger rock and roll tours, I think talking to them would be a good starting point.

I am also after any suggestions for 'flying' cloths out in a space where counterweight flying isn't a option, but there is lots of possibilities for other types of rigging, and budget really isn't a restriction.

You can gain a bit of headroom by folding your drape (even a starcloth) with intermediate bars (trusses) behind it. For example, you could fly a drape up into a space about a third of its height by having it tied to a bar one third of the way up - so that you lift the drape into a "μ" shape.
Typically you'd do this by hanging the drape from one truss, sub-hanging motors on the same truss (or perhaps using a winch system integral to the main truss) and using those to lift the lower bar. Obviously the drape needs additional ties or whatever to accommodate this.

You'd definitely want a reasonably sophisticated vari-speed flying system for this - Kenesys would be the obvious contender but there are others.

To be honest, there is the potential to "fly" them out in full as the drapes may only be half stage height, but only if the video screens are hung on stage (as opposed to to being either side of the stage), but I was also after options if this wasn't the case, and so I wouldn't have to mask above the stage.

I don't quite understand this, can you clarify?
What do you mean by 'half stage height'? The stage height is going to be about 1.5m - 2m is it not? Do you mean half the height of the false prosc (if you decide to use one)? Half the trim height of some or all of your stage lighting rig? Something else entirely?


A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

do you have enough height to go for mother grid out as far as it can go, drape from the front of this to hide things behind. subhung motors (variable speed if you need them) down to your two drape trusses, then when the drapes are 'out' they go up behind the front drape without needing to roll?

You don't necessarily need a mother grid for this - a false prosc can be rigged on a single truss and drape trusses can fly like any other trusses. (Using Kenesys motors or the like if necessary.)

Having said that, the venue that I think he's talking about happens to be one of those that already has a large mother grid installed. It may be possible to hang masking drapes directly from that grid. He'd need to discuss that with the house, there would potentially be a couple of logistical issues that may mean it'd be easier to hang the masking from a truss on motors anyway.

[Pete McCrea]

An Austrian?

[Seano]

An Austrian?

Austrian blinds writ large. Same idea as the domestic equivalent - ropes or tapes drop down through rings or similar behind the cloth, which gets 'gathered' as they're pulled up. On this scale the usual arrangement is for the cloth to hang from a truss - running along the middle of the truss there's a motor driven shaft, which in turn drives regularly spaced drums to winch up those ropes/tapes.

[alexadamson]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the reply. The starcloth would be used a 'blinder' for the gauze and would travel out to reveal whats behind, then as the final reveal to have the gauze travel out. Flying the cloths out was the look that the artist is after, so I said I would look into the possibilities, but having chatted to a few other PM's and riggers it seems that this really isn't a possibility, I just wanted to put the question out there for the many experts on the BR.

Regards the recommendations for companies, is was hopefully for somebody who had previous contact with companies that would be able to provide me with a large cloth roller, as the tour lighting and sound supplier couldn't.

Thanks
Alex

[Pete McCrea]

Cheers Seano. My something new for the day...

[timperrett]

I am pretty sure Blackout could help you out on this one - give them a go

[GRisdale]

I only saw it from a far (middle of section B at the NIA), but I believe that Coldplay had a motorised tumble/roller cloth of some sort on the Viva La Vida tour. Stage width, it looked like it was powered by a chain hoist (motor down) and either end, but it was a while ago...

Summit Steel handled the rigging.

Gareth.

[mac.calder]

Roll Drops should be fairly easy to hire from your local scenery and automation house. I know we have 2 of them sitting on our stage at the moment. They are awkward to transport and weigh a tonne but in my mind still the neatest solution for gauzes and light drops that need to retract with no headroom. Heavy drops - tab track would be the way to go in my books.

This post has been edited by mac.calder: 9 Mar 2010, 6:35 PM