dirkenstein Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Everyone, I've been looking for combined data and power connectors to carry at around 10A at 230V mains voltage, single phase, as well as DMX over a single multipin connector. This is for stage trucks which have on-board dimmers. I need both in-line plugs& sockets and possibly panel plugs. The main requirements are:a) Easily and safely connectable live by stagecrew, in low light conditions. b) Obviously rated for 250VAC use with adequate creep isolation between power and data pins. c) Preferably locking, but quick and easy to unlock (i.e. must be a bayonet or click-in type lock, not screw locking)d) If friction fit, then they must be easier to plug and unplug than CEEForms or particularly stiff 15A connectors. e) Easily orientable, preferably blindly by feel (without danger to the user from unsleeved pins or similar). f) Cheap (ish). Definitely no more than a socapex connector set, preferably much cheaper. £20 or less for a mating pair of connectors would be ideal. g) Not require hods of special tooling to assemble.h) Physical size should be smaller then socapex, preferably about the size of a 3-pin 16A ceeform or slightly smaller. Big Harting-style connectors are a definite no-no, but extreme miniaturization is not a requirement. I) resistance to being knocked and crushed, but the show won't run for that long, so extreme robustness is not required. The ideal connectors for such purposes seem to be Veam CIR or similar, but they appear to be absurdly, even ludicrously over-specced. And absurdly, even ludicrously expensive. Does anybody have any recommendations? I'm envisioning something like an imaginary Neutrik 'PowerPlusDataCon' as my ideal candidate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn.williams Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 a) Easily and safely connectable live by stagecrew, in low light conditions. I believe (I'm sure someone will correct me in if I'm wrong) that 16A Ceeforms are the only connector on the market actually rated/designed for connecting and disconnecting under load? So this might pose you a problem with (a)? I know that you can get combined audio signal (so 3 pin XLR) and power con to 16A cables but these of course have two seperate connectors altough only one cable. Is just one connector an absolute must? The other thought that has just occured to me is that 'legally speaking' (not sure on the exact regs without looking) power and data aren't allowed to run in the same cable? (Before anyone points this out I know VL5s etc do this anyway...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Harting modular connectors would be the obvious choice, but you dont fancy them. Or even a six pin non-modular, you only need six pins. Bucaneer, 900 series? EP-6 connectors would also do, but note that they (like the EP4 and EP3) are only rated at 200V, which is a bit of a bugger, as I used to have several items of kit that had factory fitted EP3 or 4 mains connectors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I don't know of anything that does what you want it to, but as hadyn suggested, could you go with the single cable with two connectors idea? We used to use it for powered speakers; it was a single cable with both power and mic cable contained within it, and then you just put on whatever connectors you wanted. I'm pretty sure it was available in both mic and DMX cable types. That way you can use whatever plugs you want - it worked pretty well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The old LSD Icon system used to run data, hard power and dimmed power down an 8-pole Neutrik Speakon connector. Rated at 30A and up to 250v (although the Neutrik website specifically says not for mains use, so you may need to be comprehensive with the paperwork). It certainly ticks all the criteria above for compactness and ease of use with keyed entry etc. If I had to do what you have to do, I'd be looking at doing something similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 As a general reply to the above: I don't particularly care if there's more than one cable, as they can be loomed, but would like a single connector, to make it quicker to connect during scene changes when trucks are being brought into position in the wings ready to go on for the next scene. The 'disconnect under load' requirement is more a 'disconnect while live and potentially drawing 15-20% of rated current for preheat and dimmer electronics' requirement. Basically I want a connector that, unlike Socapex, is not intrinsically scary and potentialy unsafe to connect and disconnect while live. Are there small Harting connectors, smaller than the series used for lectriflex? The main reason I don't like them is the locking clip arrangement, which is frankly diabolical when you're in a hurry. Are there different Harting locking options? I'll look at the buccaneer series as well. I thought they had threaded locking rings, though. Why is putting mains over 8-way speakon not permitted, other than the obvious dangers of confusion, causing you to plug one into an actual speaker?Tool-less disassembly or some sort of test finger problem? The latter would make it a no-no, even with an RA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The tool-less disassembly route is interesting, because unless I'm mistaken there's no difference in assembly between Speakon and Powercon (although obviously the designs are different.) It's just whether you do it up with a spanner or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back_ache Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 looking for combined data and power connectors to carry at around 10A at 230V mains voltage, single phase, as well as DMX over a single multipin connector. Wieland are a big name in building lighting connectors and have a suitable connector the "3i3" but it is not designed for a moving device so you may have to add additional strain relief. http://ecat.wieland-electric.com/search-en...xonomyGrpSN=949 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I don't particularly care if there's more than one cable, as they can be loomed, but would like a single connector, to make it quicker to connect during scene changes when trucks are being brought into position in the wings ready to go on for the next scene. There's an argument that your stage crew may be quicker and more comfortable using 2 "familiar" connectors rather than "one of those funny ones". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Why is putting mains over 8-way speakon not permitted, other than the obvious dangers of confusion, causing you to plug one into an actual speaker?Tool-less disassembly or some sort of test finger problem? The latter would make it a no-no, even with an RA.No idea, just the manufacturer's get-out-of-jail-free-card? As I say, we used to use it as a matter of course back in the day, and I would be happy to do it again. The connector is touchproof (designed to carry speaker voltages) and, as previously mentioned, has the same regard to tool-less disassembly as the Powercon range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 IIRC, the speakon and powercon, if tightened to the correct torque do need a tool for removal as the combined rachet and tightness makes it impossible to undo otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 My suggestion is to go with a 16A Ceeform plus an XLR-5.Panelmount would be preferred for the scenery, as you can look at the panel from a distance and know that it's connected or disconnected, while inline connections could be hidden from view. My reasoning is as follows:They are both very common connectors that every stage hand knows how to connect and disconnect, and they both lock in place.If the loom or either connector is lost or damaged there *will* be a suitable replacement in the venue, instead of you having to build up another custom cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Avolites do do a DMX over mains solution as well, which although costly is another avenue that could be investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 My suggestion is to go with a 16A Ceeform plus an XLR-5. After the above discussion, I'm inclined to agree. The idea of a 'weird' or unfamiliar connector does seem like it might confuse the crew more than it would help with speed of assembly. I'm not sure the wieland connector is to my taste without strain relief, and I'll have to go digging through catalogues for suitable hartings and buccaneers. I might swap the Ceeform for a powercon, just because it's less bulky, has no sharp protruding bits and allows 1-handed operation- the crew have used these before on another show as well so I'm not too worried about familiarity. If I'm feeling brave and can be bothered to write the RAs, I might give the speakon abuse idea a try, but I'm not going to do it until I'm happy there's no catch there that I'm overlooking and is going to cause signifcant safety issues. The panel mount idea is a good one, but this particular piece of scenery might not have too many surfaces suitably hidden from the audience- it depends on the final design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn.williams Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Why is putting mains over 8-way speakon not permitted, other than the obvious dangers of confusion, causing you to plug one into an actual speaker? Couple of reason that spring to mind are... If it's not per manufacturers design, you're just supposed to do it!Also, Connectors have to be colour coded as to the voltage they carry EG: Blue 230V, yellow 110V etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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