GarageBand MIDI Controllers

[CharlieH]

Hi. Does anyone know if GarageBand is compatible with a midi controller, such as the Behringer B-Control BCF2000 Fader? Its just I have a mate who is starting out on the recording ladder and is interested in buying a cheap MIDI controller, but doesn't have the money to buy any really good software.

 

If it is compatible, then will it have the MIDI learn capability, and if it's not compatible, is it just that controller that's not, or can GarageBand not work with any MIDI controllers?

 

Thanks,

Charlie

[bassnote]

Just done a google search and found that M-Audio made a dedicated controller for garage band called the iControl... but now it is discontinued, though there are 2 on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M-Audio-iControl-for...4#ht_500wt_1063

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M-Audio-iControl-Mix...4#ht_753wt_1048

 

take care,

 

Peter

[CharlieH]

Brilliant, thankyou. Does that mean that it is non-compatible with normal MIDI-controllers?

[paulears]

garageband is a rather simple sequencer that offers a quick intro to recording, but it's really limited. Most serious apple people use Logic. If you wish to get garageband to respond to anything other than programme change and basic controllers, such as volume expression and pan, then you need some add in software. So you can use external devices to make it do some functions - like stop, record, rewind etc - BUT you need to do them via sysex, and learning this will take a fair time, and as it uses hex, it can be rather frustrating. F0 7D 03 F7, for example would make it play.

 

I used to be the Principal Examiner for A Level Music Technology, and students have to submit sequencing for examination. Cubase, Logic, Sonar and a few others are on the list of ones that can assist good marks. Garageband isn't. It's a bit of an odd programme because it is a bit of everything. If you can't play well, it helps you, if you can't play at all, it will generate material for you, if you can play well, it sort of runs out of steam.

 

As for the Behringer controllers, they offer really amazing control via the fader or rotary versions, and many people swear by them. I swear AT them. Nothing at all wrong with the hardware, it's that setting them up to do what you want is tricky - and some people (like me) give up! I have one here that took me so long to programme to make it do what I wanted that by the time I'd done, the software had moved on a version! It is simply that you need to assign each control to a particular parameter in the software, and the problem isn't the control, it's the software in the sequencer - finding out how to access the correct controller data isn't exactly easy, and takes a pretty long time. I guess that once you have it done, you will be happy - you rarely see people who did it complaining, only people like me who never quite got finished.

 

My advice would be that attempting to get garageband to do features other than those available via the mouse quickly suggests you are a more advanced user, and if you are, stop using garageband and move onto a proper sequencer.

 

It's a bit like investing in things like Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist - it's a plugin (quite expensive) for Cubase, that plays samples of guitar riffs and rhythms from a one note keyboard press. You can adjust various features and have a number of different patterns, and will give you Status Quo's whatever you want, or a few Stones songs with amazing quality - but when would you want that in another song? Great for kids to fiddle with, but limited for producing real music.

[CharlieH]

OK, thanks. So I should tell my friend to either use the M-Audio controller that 'bassnote' suggested, or to buy logic, cubase e.t.c, as Paul suggested.

 

Thanks,

Charlie

[paulears]

nope - you missed the point. The M-audio controller is a great product - it integrates fine with garage band, and gives you manual control over many of the features. The Behringer you mention will also do the job - although it won't know how to. That is up to you. The plus point for the M-audio product is that it already has it's parameters set, so will work garageband (assuming the versions you have match up). It will work fine on the level garageband works at. It doesn't offer access to any features noy available within garageband, just makes accessing them easier.

 

As to garageband itself. That's a different matter. If you are a beginner who wishes to work with the loops and samples and add a bit of your own stuff too, it will do. It does not allow you to access the features that Cubase (PC) and Logic (MAC) offer, mainly because they are far more sophisticated. If you need the extra features, they are great. If you just want to record a few tracks, and already have garageband - go for the ebay items. If you are not into programming, avoid the Behringer because as it comes out of the box, it won't do anything. All programmable controls are like this. The M-Audio has much of the hard work done, and isn't much use for anything else.

[CharlieH]

Brilliant, thanks for that.

 

I just looked up iControl on the SOS website, and it had an article on it which said it was very good, and that, with GarageBand, it is excellent, but with anything else, it is pretty much useless. They said it was a pleasure to work with, and that if you are using GarageBand a lot, it is worth it!!

 

My mate will probably be alright with GarageBand, but I will show him the forum and let him make his mind up, he might want to buy Logic, but I doubt it. He's also not particularly good at programming, and likes to do recordings almost on a spur of the moment type thing, so he won't want to bother with any of that, so iControl sounds pretty much perfect for him.

 

Thanks for all of your help,

Charlie

[paulears]

Starting with garageband isn't all bad because it's logic in a beginners wrapper, and he can upgrade if he likes to logic (if and when he needs to). I guess it's all the 'does it automatically' functions that can make it a bit robotic if you aren't careful.

 

It's designed around the concept of getting beginners recording quickly - so perhaps I'm being a bit rough on it?

[CharlieH]

I use it quite a lot, and really like it. I would use Logic, if I could afford it, and am probably going to buy it pretty soon, but until I do, I'm more than happy to use GarageBand. I'm not sure how my friend feels about it, but I know that I would recommend it!

 

So is Logic the same kind of idea as GarageBand, but a bit more complicated? Ie, does it have a similar GUI, if you were comfortable using GarageBand, would the jump to Logic be that difficult?

[jmaudio]

Hey,

 

I've not had any experience with the iControl product, but I do use Logic Express 8 on a near-daily basis.

 

First of all, The actual difference between Logic Express and Logic, is very minimal, A few of the high end soft-synths and plugins are not included, but then, if you want the pro features, then you have to pay for them! (of course Pro does come with about 60gb of extra content - loops etc) That said, what I did was get a letter from my school, on headed paper, explaining that I was taking music for GCSE. And the bloke in the apple shop sold me Logic Express for £60. And Logic Pro, with the educational discount was circa £130. I don't know of the new pricing now Logic 9 has been released.

 

I, like you and your friend, used Garage Band on my mac before I bought Logic, and didn't struggle with the learning curve, Although I was familiar with the basic layout of Cubase, which is probably more similar to Logic than Garage Band. Once you've figured out the basics, how to record, add effects etc... Then the learning curve begins. At this point the way different sequencers do tasks differs radically, and the only way to figure them out is to play/read the manual.

 

If your interested in recording music, then Garage Band will probably suit you better, it will get the simple tasks sorted with the minimum of fuss, however, if you are interested in recording, then there is a very limited amount you can learn from Garage Band. Things like compression ratios, pitch fix, time correction and audio routing, Garage Band sorts out, whereas in Logic, you have to learn it, then sort it!

 

Oh, though I have never used a midi controller with Logic, I think that it is slightly simpler than Paul made out... Perhaps a different version? I believe that the Behringer unit has a mode that emulates the Mackie control surface/protocol and inside Logic there are some pre-mapped controllers supported, so with a little bit of editing you can get the 8 faders to control 8 designated faders in Logic... You'd have to have a play, but I think its simple enough, and there is plenty of support on the (excellent) SOS forum.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie.

[CharlieH]

Brilliant, thanks Jamie.

 

I'm interested in you saying about the bloke selling you the software cheaply though. I tried to buy my Mac with an educational discount, and they said I had to be over 18. Did you have to do anything special, and what did the letter include? I could probably afford £60, but I couldn't afford the £100 and something it's selling for normally!

 

Thanks,

Charlie

[jmaudio]

Did you have to do anything special, and what did the letter include? I could probably afford £60, but I couldn't afford the £100 and something it's selling for normally!

 

Thanks,

Charlie

 

 

I'm pretty sure all the letter included was a short explanation saying that I was a student, studying music, and therefore entitled to software discount. On my schools headed paper. Dated, and signed by the headteacher and head of the music department.

 

The more I think about it, I may have actually bought it from Digital Village's educational branch Music Village I have a store pretty local to me, and so just popped in there with my letter. I know that in that link Logic Express 9 isn't actually listed, however I'd of thought if you gave them a call they would be able to get you a price on it, and be able to give you details on what the letter has to include. Oh and don't forget, you will have to pay VAT on the prices listed on the website.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jamie.

[CharlieH]

Brilliant, thankyou! I'm just about to start the GCSE music course, so that would be brilliant!! Thanks a lot!

 

EDIT: I just phoned Music Village, and they said that they didn't have an educational discount, and that I would have to speak to Apple directly. I will try this later.