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Well known names with problems? Split from another topic

#1 User is offline   indyld 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 04:14 PM

View Poststringman, on 25 Oct 2008, 1:04 PM, said:

Interestingly if the company mentioned by the op is the one I think it is- then half the people from the company in administration are alledged to be going to the first company (if that makes sense)


That sounds like a recipe for disaster. After losing your job, I would have thought the last thing you needed to be doing was going to work for another business that seems to be also having some issues with cashflow.

Things have moved along, even since JDP first posted about this. I have been effected by several developments, including the one last Friday (which we knew was probably coming). I have also found myself being less flexible about T & C and have drawn back my own credit giving habits even more - just got a 50% payment for a large gig in November before I felt able to refuse other work.

I am not sure I agree completely with the sentiment that "we are all so desperate for work, to hell with our own business risks". It would be cheaper/less risky for me to stay at home and refuse work than go out "on the nod" with some poxy little company who ends up paying late or not at all. And there are plenty of these around.

Some people say "ah but what about the next tech that comes along and will do what you are not prepared to?". Well, that's up to them but there is a good chance you will be let down on a job, someday, somehow. And my phone will be left mysteriously unanswered.
Rob

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#2 User is offline   paulears 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 05:17 PM

Now that rumours have produced real facts - we can point members to web sites such as This, where details of PSL's problems can be read about for those intrigued by the careful language people have been using for the past week. Another company, Show presentation Services are also talked about here.

#3 User is offline   jimbo7744 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 06:10 PM

Thank god we can now actually talk about the companies involved without fear of being sued or having a post removed to protect the BR (understandably)

PSL...... good riddance. They have done it too many times in the past, screwed suppliers and freelancers over time and time again and gotten away with it. The industry will be better off without companies like that.

SPS. A great shame. Always seemed like a large stable company, with a great reputation. I have never worked for them, but know many freelancers that did and feel for those who have lost money. There was no indication AFAIK that they were in real difficulties and their demise must be a very big concern to every AV company operating in these "difficult times" to quote every politician worldwide.

The next few months will show the real extent of the Credit Crunch on the corporate AV market. Hopefully it wont lead to more companies collapsing and more redundencies.

Jimbo

edit. quick typo

This post has been edited by jimbo7744: 25 October 2008 - 06:10 PM


#4 User is offline   JDP 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:15 PM

OK, the company who sent that letter are actually the people who have employed some of Show Supports staff - theres a clue for you ;)

I was reading the LSI this week, and some companies, the one mentioned in particular Hawthorns, noted an increase in their corporate events. As much as SOME of the corporate industry is being affected by the credit crunch, I think the companies who do a good job and provide a good end result will always keep busy.

I am actually doing a little bit more corporate now, than I was, mainly due to my (arena) end of the rock n roll industry being a little bit quite. In fact, looking at dates on at the 02 and Wembley kind of confirm that, but big scale parties, awards dinners etc seem to still be going ahead. I have done several jobs with a LOT of kit on this year, all whilst we have been supposedly hitting a recession....

I don't know Show Support, but PSL have always had a reputation of doing half jobs, and their kit has always been battered, so probably, they have lost their clients due to not delivering, more than the recession. In fact I am pretty sure the previous times they have gone bust it hasn't been a recession on, so I suspect this is coincidence, and its more their clients have gone elsewhere?

Theres also the matter of certain 'other' companies doing jobs cheaply, getting in cheap freelancers and doing an OK job, if the client is lucky.

#5 User is offline   indyld 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:25 PM

It seems that, in the flurry of collapsement this week, I was not alluding either of the two business listed by Paul.

I didn't realise that the whole PSL / SPS thing broke as "late" as those reports suggest. Let's face it, it's not exactly unheard of with those particular businesses - I still have the paperwork from the last time. Partly due to my office routine - it's all probably still in my IN tray.

While I don't want to bring confusion back to this thread, I was actually referring to a long standing Southern based AV and hire business with 30 years uninterrupted trading behind them. They went "official" Friday 17th Oct... I think.....

Seems like we got our "last Friday's" muddled up. It's hard to keep up with all this Creditor administration - I shall have to take on extra staff. ;)
Rob

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#6 User is online   Andrew C 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:33 PM

View Postindyld, on 25 Oct 2008, 8:25 PM, said:

While I don't want to bring confusion back to this thread, I was actually referring to a long standing Southern based AV and hire business with 30 years uninterrupted trading behind them. They went "official" Friday 17th Oct... I think.....
In administration, so there is some hope, although the staff have been laid off, so not looking good. Again, not naming names as I haven't been able to point to an "Official Statement", but my source is good (and looking for work).
Andrew

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#7 User is offline   indyld 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:40 PM

View PostAndrew C, on 25 Oct 2008, 8:33 PM, said:

Again, not naming names as I haven't been able to point to an "Official Statement", but my source is good (and looking for work).


I have the paperwork and an personal phone call from the MD last week for the "Official" bit, but I don't feel the need to broadcast everyones business on an internet forum. Those who really need to know will know, I hope. Again, it was no great surprise in the end. We were just hoping that it would get sorted before the final chukka. (

I do think that is a shame and not just for personal financial reasons.
Rob

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#8 User is offline   jimbo7744 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:00 PM

indyld,

Although you say you "don't feel the need to broadcast everyones business on an internet forum" maybe some poeple wishing to enter the corporate AV market might like to know which or which area corporate events companies seem to be going bust. Or people such as myself that are heavily involved in working with these companies.

If you feel that you shouldn't or won't reveal the companies name, then please let a Mod know so they can maybe post it anonymously.

Although the company you mentoned has been trading for 30+ years, I think an idea of what companies that used to be considered as stable and what companies "we" as freelancers should be trading with needs to be considered and what kind of credit terms they are able to have with us. Without this kind of information, and knowledge of the early warning signs, this kind of going under and setting up the next day as P%L.co.uk or P&Llondon or P%Levents will keep on happening. If the MD has sent you a letter then surely thats a legal document that will stand up in court and you wont be liable to any legal reprocussions?

Lets protect US from the less than honest and without any kind of conscience for the "little man"

Jimbo

#9 User is offline   paulears 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:13 PM

I'm personally never sure that publicising this kind of stuff is good. After all, cash flow, the problem for many people nowadays means even good solid businesses can have problems. Most of us are aware that being in administration, liquidation, being wound up and bancruptcy are common phrases - but using the wrong one can be disastrous. The speed of the internet means that a company in administration could suffer - just look at the world events recently to see how lack of confidence can really wreck things.

We've put in quite a lot of effort behind the scenes this last week to check facts on various topics, and while some have had sad endings - others have simply been dead ends, with plenty of sources, but sources unwilling to say yes in public - for very sound reasons.

On the other hand, if you are about to place a contract, knowing who is sound and who is not is pretty important. Perhaps we should be able to house rumours, maybe we shouldn't, but what is for certain is that a company going down the pan will be looking to hand out blame - and that could be very expensive.

#10 User is offline   jimbo7744 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:20 PM

Quote

I have the paperwork and an personal phone call from the MD last week for the "Official" bit


Surely thats enough if indyld is will to let you the Mods know?

Jimbo

#11 User is offline   indyld 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:34 PM

Before Paul had posted, I sent a PM to Jimbo774 explaining my reason for not adding unecessary pressure on a client of mine. It's not like it's an international secret but I am not prepared to get the reputation for blabbing my professional business all over the place. There is no such thing as "us" in this instance.

I think that the Mod's already "know", but they aren't mythical gods who are immune to the world the rest of us live in.

People who's businesses fall on hard times are not the same as rogues who are less than honest. And I have a whole list of businesses I wouldn't touch with a bargepole - who doesn't? These industry reputations are nearly always accurate and deserved but I am still not going to start publishing them.

//edit, thanks adam. You see why I shouldn't get involved in legal.

This post has been edited by indyld: 25 October 2008 - 08:44 PM

Rob

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#12 User is offline   adamharman 

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:41 PM

I think you might want to add the word "not" in that last sentence?

#13 User is offline   Andy Mel 

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 03:39 PM

I noticed stagecraft were shut the other day......

#14 User is offline   Pattern123 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 10:49 PM

View PostAndy Mel, on 26 Oct 2008, 3:39 PM, said:

I noticed stagecraft were shut the other day......


Called them today, they have gone into Liquidation, no Hire, no Sales!
If it isn't working - poke it with a stick!

#15 User is offline   MarkA74 

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 01:33 PM

Its interesting to note that size of the companies that seem to be going under at present:-

PSL used to be huge, especially in the days when they were part of the old Gearhouse Group and I always thought of SPS being a relatively "big name".

I just wonder what the reasons behind their collapses are due to? Surely they can't both blame the credit crunch / recession totally?

Could it be partly due to that fact that the high end clients aren't spending as much? Are the big name production companies not getting the work in? Or may be a combination of all the above?

May be those AV companies who pitch themselves at the 2000 - 30,000 event will keep ticking over through the "bad times", whilst those with big stock inventories and high staff costs will need to tighten their corporate belts considerably?

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