which rope should i use?

[Coster]

Could someone advise me on the correct type of rope to be used for lifting of items such as MAC's, Parcans, Motors ects to fixed bars/truss.

 

Also does anyone know of a manufacture of a pulley system I could hook onto fixed bars/truss so someone from below could pull up the item?

[PhilT]

You'll want a nice hauling line (I'd suggest not using it for anything else eg. PPE) that's of a sufficient thickness that it won't hurt your hands or slip if you're sweaty. Flints do a nice selection of ropes and pulleys, I quite like the Braided Polyester (Matt) and you can buy it by the metre if you want to gwt a sample of the different thicknesses etc. Bear in mind the weights quoted on the site are the breaking strains not the SWL!

 

Flint's can do you pulleys, carabiners and roundslings if you want a 'flexible hauling system', I can recommend the Petzl Pro Traxion Swing Side Self Jamming Pulley for ropes up to 13mm diameter. Also the Opera Web Block seems to be worth a look, and it's a good price!

 

Obviously there are other places to get ropes and hardware from, like Lyon Equipment and Rope Assemblies for a start, but most places seem to have Flints accounts so it's generally easier!

 

Phil

[Rich newby]

There are lots of different pulleys, I am a Rock climber and do lots of general rope and high adventure rigging. Yes the traxion is very good, but it is probably not too good for holding a rope with weight on for hour after hour. ( its probably fine, but it was not constructed for the purpose, so its better safe than sorry)If were going down the climbing route then a petzl accender like the croll behind will do the job better, although harder to get back down, the problem is that the locking equipment uses teeth to dig into the rope, which can also damage the rope over time, so when releasing the the rope, there needs to be no weight on the rope. My way of doing it would be a Petzl Fixe as the pulley, with a petzl shunt as the locking device. You then just have to pull the lever on the shunt to release it. You can then lower it slowly or fast depending on how hard you push the lever. How to set up the Croll or the basic system with the Fixe, is page 3 on here . Set up the Shunt the same way, except with the shunt instead of the accender.

 

Rich

 

P.S I would use the basic accender instead of the croll, if you going to use an accender. However, overall I would use the shunt.

 

The links above are to .pdf files. Those on dial-up may want to think twice prior to clicking!

 

Only One is a PDF It The Link titled ,Here

[PhilT]

Yes the traxion is very good, but it is probably not too good for holding a rope with weight on for hour after hour. ( its probably fine, but it was not constructed for the purpose, so its better safe than sorry)

 

Yup, if you wanted to deadhang something a Traxion wouldn't be suitable. But the the original poster wanted a suitable pulley for lifting items to a high level truss. The Traxion allows the person on the bottom of the rope to haul on the rope, then let the Traxion take a large quantity, if not all, of the weight of the load whilst he/she repositions their hands in preparation for another haul. It's so much easier than having the full weight on the rope all the time.

 

I'd not suggest using anything more complex than this, particularly anything that involved levers and variable speeds. If you're rigging 100 points or 100 MACs, you're just going to want to get it up there! If it's too complex, just use something like the Opera Web Block thingy.

[robloxley]

Don't forget LOLER requirements

[Chris Higgs]

Trouble with 'climbing' stuff is the line's often too thin. So you go for a thicker line and the Petzl kit won't fit it. Using jammers and the like with pulleys just takes up too much headroom much of the time.

I used to sell the Wallhauler pulley and the biggest line I could get to fit it to LSD for the Icons years ago - I think it worked OK.

Bear in mind the load you are applying to the pulley and cam (the weak bit) and the bar or truss. This will typically be equal to around 2.1 times the weight of the luminaire if using a small 'climbing' pulley.

It counts as lifting equipment, as Rob Loxley said, so bear that in mind, too. (Certs of conformity, marked SWLs, inspection regime and records, training in use, etc, etc)

9 times of 10 IMHO just a bit of 16mm line is the best way, no pulleys or fancy stuff - assuming you can't bring the bar or truss to the luminaire.....

[Seano]

<delurk> (Hello)

 

On pulleys:

 

For very occasional use, a Petzl fixe might be fine. The upside is that its cheap. The downside is that the sheave is rather small, and it has a bush rather than a bearing, which means the person you have pulling from the floor is likely to go off you after a while. Because of its fixed cheek design, a fixe should only be used on a (symmetrical) oval carabiner - a standard offset D shaped carabiner will put a lot of stress one side of the device.

 

For anything more frequent, you really need a pulley with proper bearings, like the Petzl P50 or equivalent. Or even better, if you can get hold of one, the Cmi RP103.

 

If you want a locking device, the Petzl pro-traxion is a excellent product. It has a good sized sheave, proper bearings and a locking mechanism which is at least as secure (and far simpler) than anything you might improvise with ascenders etc. There is a downside though; in order to release the lock (which is a toothed cam, similar to that in most ascenders), you need to lift the load slightly to disengage the teeth. If the load is pulled up a little too far, so that a knot is pulled hard against the body of the device (easily done with someone on the floor pulling for you), you're stuffed - it'll be a serious pain in the backside to release.

 

Top of the range, for my money though, is a Harken Hexaratchet 1549. It has an octagonal sheave and a ratchet mechanism so that when the load isn't being pulled up it takes about 80% of the weight - it doesn't lock completely. The load still needs to be held, but it cant get jammed, and it continues to take most of the weight as you lower. (For example as you drop a fixture onto its hookclamps.)

Its expensive, and can be difficult to obtain, but well worth it if you do a lot of hauling.

The downside with this one is that it doesn't "open" - you have to feed the rope in from the end. Not something that ever bothers me, but ymmv.

 

On rope:

Pay money, take choice. <_<

 

If you're shopping around for rope, don't forget there are several different kinds of suppliers offering different products. The obvious ones are climbing/caving shops, yacht chandlers and theatrical suppliers.

 

It might also be worth checking around if you have an arboricultural supplier in your area. There are some very strong and hardwearing 13mm kernmantle "lowering" ropes on the market, and they're often sold by the m. (Beal make one, called the "Baobab", I have a colleague who uses it, seems nice.)

 

One top tip though. If you don't already have one, get a length of 5mm (or thereabouts) accessory cord. (Available by the m from any decent climbing shop.) You'll find 50' will fit into a chalk bag quite easily, which you can clip on the back of your harness and forget about. Then if you need it mid-focus, you'll find its quite adequate for pulling up something light, like a spanner or a spare bubble, and of course you can use it to pull up a bigger rope if you need one. Its much easier (and therefore safer) than dragging a full sized rope around.

 

HTH

Sean

x

 

ps: If you attempt to use a Shunt as a lowering device, as recommended earlier, you may find yourself pondering the wisdom of accepting the advice of strangers offered on t'internet.

[PhilT]

Seano, that was a brilliant post, I certainly learnt a thing or two. The Harken Hexaratchet looked brilliant - until I saw the price! Wow, that's a gourmet pulley (even in dollars).

 

I'll add my vote for kernmantle rope - if it can cope with being dragged across tree bark, should be fine up a truss. I personally prefer a larger diameter than 13mm for a hauling line (just personal preference), but obviously this is determined by the pulley you decide to use.

[Dave Hallett]

<liberally snipped>

<delurk> (Hello)

 

On pulleys:

 

For anything more frequent, you really need a pulley with proper bearings, like the Petzl P50 or equivalent. Or even better, if you can get hold of one, the Cmi RP103.

 

If you want a locking device, the Petzl pro-traxion is a excellent product. If the load is pulled up a little too far, you're stuffed - it'll be a serious pain in the backside to release.

 

Top of the range, for my money though, is a Harken Hexaratchet 1549.

 

On rope:

Pay money, take choice. <_<

 

HTH

Sean

x

 

ps: If you attempt to use a Shunt as a lowering device, as recommended earlier, you may find yourself pondering the wisdom of accepting the advice of strangers offered on t'internet.

 

Also un-lurking mainly for a 'Hear hear' reponse to this excellent post.

 

Couple of points to follow on:

 

If you're going to be anywhere near the heavy end of the moving light market then get yourself a proper pulley. The P50 is good, and is available from Tag Safety as above or Up and Under who are local to me and very good.

 

As implied above don't go using a Pro Taxion for rigging and de-rigging lights. It's almost impossible to avoid lifting the light too far with the line, and then you don't have enough hands to lift the 40kg of mover as well as release the locking device. Just use a decent normal pulley like the P50 and get a friend to help pull the line.

 

However, again as Sean says, the Hexaratchet is the guv'nor. I've had one for a while and will not now swap heavy movers without it. It makes the whole process much less painful for all concerned. Just make sure the right end of the rope is tied to the light so you're not fighting the pulley as well as gravity! I don't have the largest 1549 - but the medium sized 009, which is available from Quay West Chandlery.

I've never shopped with them and so have no idea what they're like (I got mine from foreign parts) but the price is very good, and the pulley isn't as heavy as the 1549. It's also just a little bit shorter which could make the difference with toy truss.

 

Rope is down to personal preference and budget. My hauling line is a 25m bit of 14mm line which for me works as a compromise between it fitting through pulleys, being ok on the hands, and not being too huge to carry around.

 

ps: If you attempt to use a Shunt as a lowering device, as recommended earlier, you may find yourself pondering the wisdom of accepting the advice of strangers offered on t'internet.

 

Wise and sage words. Heed them well lampies one and all. 'Flayed hands' are not this season's big look. Shunts in general are a bad thing. Have a look at the fairly new Petzl ASAP. I got one recently and it is absolutely excellent.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Seano]

I personally prefer a larger diameter than 13mm for a hauling line (just personal preference)

 

Me too. I mostly pull points up with a solid braid handline, which is about 18mm. Toolsforstagecraft.com used to sell them in 5/8" and 3/4", but they seem to have dropped the 3/4" version. The main source in the UK used to be American touring riggers who know its hard to come by over here and bring a flight-case full to sell - usually with a few Klein "Haven Grips" in the bottom of the box for good measure. (A good wheeze for supplementing the pd's whilst cementing good relations with the locals.)

 

For dropping the points in, I generally use an 11mm semi-static. The rope I'm using for this at the mo is coming up for retirement - I have a 13mm Marlow arborcultural line arriving tomorrow (hopefully) which I'm going to experiment with. It wasn't expensive, so if it works out I'll be happy to post a link to the supplier.

 

I'm in a slightly different positon to the original poster though, in that ropes and pulleys are pretty much the only thing in my "toolbox" (PPE and a few gadgets aside) - pulling points up and dropping them in again accounts for almost everything I do at work, so for me its worth using different ropes for pulling up and dropping in, and keeping several different lengths to suit different venues. (Then again it could just be that I'm a gear freak in denial. <_<)

I'm guessing the original poster is more interested in a single rope he can keep in his toolbox to cover all eventualities - much more of a compromise.

 

<also snipped somewhat>

I don't have the largest 1549 - but the medium sized 009, which is available from Quay West Chandlery.

I've never shopped with them and so have no idea what they're like (I got mine from foreign parts) but the price is very good, and the pulley isn't as heavy as the 1549. It's also just a little bit shorter which could make the difference with toy truss.

 

Good point. The smaller hexaratchet is considerably cheaper and more widely available, probably a better choice for the OP. The only comment I would make is that if you're careless, its quite easy to break the knob off the "switch". I guess "don't be careless" is the answer to that one. The sliding toggle "switch" on the bigger one is pretty much indestructable.

 

I've bought them from Storrar Marine up in Newcastle in the past. (Its one of those shops you could browse around for hours.) They generally have to order the big ones in, I think they're a bit too esoteric for chandlers to keep in stock. The smaller ones are available off the shelf.

 

Also, for heavy movers, I think its worth elaborating on Chris Higgs' comment:

assuming you can't bring the bar or truss to the luminaire.....

Its good advice to consider whether you can lower the truss and work at ground level, which is invariably simpler and safer. Because we can, and because its fun, I think we sometimes commit to working in the air when it isn't strictly necessary.

 

Shunts in general are a bad thing.

I wouldn't go that far - I think the Shunt is a excellent device for what its good for. (In fact its the *only* device for what its primarily designed to do.)

Its just that what its good for and what it gets used for in our industry aren't necessarily the same thing. :)

 

There's a review here which I think is a must read for anyone considering buying an ASAP. I've never used one myself, so have no opinion. I very rarely use a slidy rope-grab type backup device (thats a technical term), but when I do its a Troll "Rocker" for me.

 

Sean

x

[PhilT]

The Harken Hexaratchet looked brilliant - until I saw the price!

 

I take it all back. At £40 or so that's a good deal. Think I know what MY stocking filler is going to be this year...

 

Oh, and the Troll Rocker - great for vertical safety lines . The simple ideas are often the best.

[Chris Higgs]

But nowhere compared to the ASAP...