equipment hire - needs FCA approval

[paulears]

Discovered today that if you rent out equipment for more than 3 months, you need to get Financial Conduct Authority approval - which for a 'limited application' is £100 a year and some forms.

 

Didn't know that!

 

FCA link

[ImagineerTom]

The key word in all this would be "consumer" - if you're renting to jo public then yes but since almost everything in the theatrical world is business-to-business I'm not sure any of this is relevant; otherwise every major hire firm in the country (and every west end or touring show) is breaching the rules hundreds of times over.

[Jivemaster]

:|| I dont see that many consumers would want to hire out equipment for over three months, for the few that do, perhaps a "return for servicing" clause every three months would be good enough to get the kit in and out on a new hire docket.

 

As the regs are all in Consumer Credit sections then a VAT registered business is not a consumer, so trade rules apply.

[paulears]

Trouble is I'm not sure about things like amateur groups, and community groups who appear to be nothing but a collection of individuals - I'll have to assume from now on that they're businesses. I don;t actually think they were? Is consensus that they are not consumers?

[johnhuson]

If they are hiring equipment to put on a show for which they are going to receive money for performing then I would consider them to be a business rather than a consumer in these circumstances.

[Andrew C]

I think the legal term is 'an unincorporated body', though what means in the context of this question, I don't know. I do know owning property is problematic.

[ImagineerTom]

Firstly, how many unofficial community groups have you got hiring kit for months at a time?

Secondly, how does your insurance (equipment hire, professional / indemnity, business, buildings) classify such groups - there's plenty of policies which specifically exclude cover to one or the other definitions so perhaps this would be a good opportunity to check all these definitions as there's a very real risk that you don't have the coverage you might think you have.

[paulears]

Well, apart from insurance which does not cover equipment hired, the rest is fine, and I've got quite a bit of stuff on quite long term hire with quite unusual organisations - school PTA, village community group and sub hired to a couple of sole traders who keep the kit permanently and then include it in their packages. I couldn't find anyone even willing to consider insuring it, so the terms include them insuring the equipment - which I know some, but not all do. I will have to revise some of these to have start and finish dates that fit the system. This won't be a problem, because some involve OFCOM permits, and these can just have matching start and finish dates - at the moment the maximum hire for some items is a year - so they usually have ten months as the duration of hire. In fact - I tend to rarely do short term hires at all, most of my hire business being from deliver and forget clients.

 

Mind you - thinking about it, I suspect just changing the billing details would work - from Joe Bloggs, home address to ABC community hall, ℅ Joe Bloggs

[ImagineerTom]

Well everything you've described so far is /not/ a consumer so none of this regulation affects you then.

 

There is some leeway in to exactly what a "business" is but if people have arranged in to a group, trust, committee, society, organisation or guide then they are absolutely not "consumers" for the purposes of the CCA and FCA regulations so you don't need to worry about it.

[pete10uk]

I would say if the equipment is to be used in their home by the hirer and their family, then it's consumer. if it's to be used for the benefit of a group, school, organisation or anything other than in a home, then these rules won't apply. Best thing to do is include the group name on the invoice, I find most people are keen to gave this so they can claim back the money.

 

I don't think this is relevant for what you have described.

[d_korman]

Trouble is I'm not sure about things like amateur groups, and community groups who appear to be nothing but a collection of individuals - I'll have to assume from now on that they're businesses. I don;t actually think they were? Is consensus that they are not consumers?

 

They are (or should be) Unincorporated Members' Organisations, run by an elected committee in accordance with a written and formally adopted constitution. They are not a legal entity in their own right, so cannot enter into contracts or own property. Therefore, the constitution requires that they appoint trustees, usually the elected Officers and Committee Members, and the assets of the club are vested in the Trustees, who manage them in accordance with the Constitution.

 

Unincorporated Members' Organisations

 

The Trustees and/or other individuals authorised by the Committee, may enter into contracts on behalf of the Club. I doubt they are classed as consumers in this role, but I don't know for sure.