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Disney and PRS


Andrew Edwards

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Starting to hear that PRS now do not control the usage of Disney music in any context, including [dance school] dance and 'unstaged' singing. Looks like if you want to use Disney music in your show it will be a direct additional licence (and cost).

 

It would appear that PRS are currently 'with' Disney until Friday to try and find out what the **** is going on. It doesn't look good.

 

Anybody else getting this news?

 

E2A: They also appear to be retrospectively applying this change to shows at the back end of last year submitted on the last quarter return!

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As I understand it (from afar!) PRS represents songwriters, and for those licences where one specifies which tracks one is using the the actual songwriter(s) get the dosh. For blanket licences they split revenue by some magic formula and so most songwriters get nothing from the pot, and the few, big, popular songwriters get most of it.
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You'll find that this isn't new - Disney has been out for quite a while on all the popular material, as is a large chunk of Abba and the popular songs from Jukebox Musicals. Mama Mia did it for Abba, and other pop material used on stage goes in and out. The Rubettes Sugar Baby Love was even out at one point. It's money but also control.

 

The term is 7F'd as in clause 7F of the PRS agreement, which allows a composer to restrict rights to some works.

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Over the years, we have discovered which parts of Disney IP are in and out of PRS. We have also been contacted when popular Disney (and other) IP has moved out of PRS.

 

I have absolutely no issue with who controls what or indeed care why, the annoying thing is that we find out 'by accident' when a return comes back with half a dozen queries. We spoke to PRS to get clearance on these tracks, the client putting on the production also spoke with them. We were given clearance as long as they were not staged; they weren't. Now we discover that in fact PRS does not control the rights and we need to talk to (and presumably pay) Warner now.

 

The people we need to talk to at PRS, Warner and Disney are all unavailable until Friday.

 

It appears to be Panto that is being 'targeted' from last year.

 

It's the switch of information that I take issue with. Someone out of the bunch as ****ed up. Whoever it turns out to be will be taking the hit on any additional payments once we can actually talk to someone.

 

If the information turns out to be accurate and/or this big meeting doesn't change anything, there are going to be some very difficult conversations with some upcoming local dance shows.

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As I understand it (from afar!) PRS represents songwriters, and for those licences where one specifies which tracks one is using the the actual songwriter(s) get the dosh. For blanket licences they split revenue by some magic formula and so most songwriters get nothing from the pot, and the few, big, popular songwriters get most of it.

This pretty much sums up my past experience with the PRS.

 

Our annual return consists of NO detail (because they don't ask for it and there's nowhere to put it on the form even if they did) about what tracks get used for the plethora of dance shows, variety shows and panto. Which has always confused me about who actually gets a chunk of our annual £1500 or so that we send them.

 

Note that it's hard enough to get basic info from the groups involved without having to chase them for full track lists and timings etc, so a big part of me doesn't want to even approach that hornets' nest let alone poke it. But it does seem rather a cavalier approach to grabbing cash from us and send it to .... where? who??

 

Hmm...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From the other side of the process, wanting to sign up as a musician/recording artist to *receive* royalties, it doesn't look much more sane.

 

I've yet to have the website actually successfully register an account or send me a registration email so I can start the online version of signing up for an ISRC. A simple ask, you'd think. After the 10th attempt at it over about 4 months, in between other online tasks while I got on with real-life and other actual paying work, I sat down and thought about it:

 

1) Do I think I'll ever get played enough on mainstream radio, or other public licencable spaces, to care about loss royalties? No.

2) Even if the answer to 1) was yes, do I think the kind of person who's most likely to play my stuff in such a place will be the kind of person who'll care enough to actually tell royalties collection agencies exactly what they played and when, even if the opportunity and money were provided for them to do so? No.

3) Therefore, do I have time to worry about this right now, enough to put down my paid work and talk to someone long enough to convince them there's a problem, and likely end up paying for the pleasure, with no guarantee that the formula will get me anything worth having, even when people *do* follow the rules and state that my work was used? Errr... No.

 

One day, if I get to a point where the thing reaches critical mass where I believe it *might* go big enough to be an investment worth protecting, I might go there. But even then it seems to be more hassle than it's worth. And if Disney and others are sidestepping the established licencing/collection/control process anyways, then what's the point in even having it?

 

So right now I've gone straight for a download-only model on Bandcamp, where I get to set a minimum fee and people can choose to pay more if they've had a listen and think it's worth it. I've not sold many copies, and indeed I didn't expect to. But within 4 weeks of it being there I've covered the costs of making the stuff in the first place, and what little profit it's made on top is about to buy me its first pint.

 

And don't even get me started on the venue submissions for CCLI compliance...

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I think you got crossed wires.

 

The ISRC is managed by PPL, not PRS - they are where the codes are logged. Essentially they deal with the record companies - and look after the physical product side of things, so for me - I am the artist/band, and the title is linked to me. Most of my music products are not really going to be found by others, because they are usually produced for specific projects - but once in a while, you suddenly get a payment on the statement for somebody using it - and it's the code that triggers the payment. One piece of music got used in a dodgy movie that I didn;'t even know about, but it doesn't matter as it generated a few quid.

 

PRS only represent the composer, not the finished product - so with PRS they log when it was recorded, who played or contributed and even the engineer. PRS just want the composer.

And if Disney and others are sidestepping the established licencing/collection/control process anyways, then what's the point in even having it?

They aren't sidestepping the process, because PRS exist to act on behalf of their clients, but nothing says a client HAS to have an agent. Clearly, PRS despite chasing people don't collect remotely near 100% of what they should, and it's unrealistic to expect them to, so when music becomes abnormally popular, it makes business sense to take back control for the catalogue and license it yourself and keep 100% of it, rather than lose some to the collection agency. This is what is happening - clause 7F allowing it to be removed.

 

You should really register with PRS and PPL, and then get the code for each work when you have finished recording it.

 

 

 

I've never had any problems registering new works I produce, I just logged in and did a search on a random title, and it should look something like this, once you have registered.

post-19-0-61833100-1422052382_thumb.png

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Ah yes, crossed wires indeed. My apologies for that and the misplaced rant that followed. Way too many TLA's, FLA's and FLW's flying around. ;) Comes with mixing too much IT, live audio and venue management bits into the same role or person, I guess!

 

Content and rights management in my day-job is becoming more difficult for sure and I suppose, now I've taken a deep breath, I'm wondering that's whether we're simply using so much more of it and more often than we once were, or whether it is in fact getting more arduous in any way to actually manage what we do use?

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Very annoyingly - I dug out that old track I used to check the system worked and thought I'd stick it in the macbook, as it the track was older than the computer - and it didn't recognise it, so despite applying for the code, it looks like I forgot to actually embed it in the CD run, at least, in the first batch, as this one is from that first run. Duh!

 

Seriously though, I now register absolutely everything because since the unexpected payment, it's clear people do grab CDs and if they fit, they use them.

 

Last year, I got zero from PRS and PPL - but you never know.

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Our annual return consists of NO detail (because they don't ask for it and there's nowhere to put it on the form even if they did) about what tracks get used for the plethora of dance shows, variety shows and panto. Which has always confused me about who actually gets a chunk of our annual £1500 or so that we send them.

This is where NZ seems to differ from the UK. We (more accurately, our theatre) have a blanket licence for music for the theatre for all music except that that occurs (in effect) while the curtain is up. This used to be called a "background" music licence, but there's been some musical chairs and the names have changed and I'm not yet back up to speed. But essentially, this is the same licence that your local supermarket or hairdresser gets for background music, and is based on the square meterage of public area that music could be played into.

 

For all music used "on stage" we need to fill in full paperwork to seek permission in advance of such music use, becausee are using "music in a dramatic context", and that is licenced individually, track by track.

 

You UK guys seem to get some relaxation on this.

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The system is pretty similar here Bob. The main kind of PRS license for the music, outside the curtain up and down, then the PRS for show music - calculated usually as 1% of the box office, but then by a music to non-music percentage, so a juke box musical could have total playing time of 2 hours, with total music time of one hour, meaning 50% of 1% of the box office - but complicated by 10% of the music content being 7F'd - leaving the calculation a bit more complex - in real use it's down to minutes and seconds all added up. Paying the excluded works fees to the individual record companies.

 

 

To make it even worse, if you have picked a piece of music that is 7F'd, then they want the percentage of the box office calculated, and sometimes it's a very small amount of money. EMI once told me that for the amateur show I was doing, the fee would be £40.50, however, it would cost them £70 to get a contract issued, so after a little humming and aahring, their solution was to forget it. "Could I have that in writing?" - I asked them on the phone if they were just saying go away and forget it, and it got an "aha". On the other hand, 37 seconds of the dreaded Sugar Baby Love was indeed charged for by their record company!

 

You also have music that is played during the show but is not part of the story or action - interpolated music, and that is different again.

 

One thing is sure - doing copyright clearance correctly is so difficult.

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