Behringer X18...

[Simon Lewis]

Don't think this has been discussed yet? There's similar product out there, but this does look interesting,,,

 

Behringer X18

 

http://www.behringer.com/assets/X18_banner.jpg

 

[kerry davies]

What similar product Simon? This looks an ideal teaching tool in your sector and I can think of a few music producers it would be a great help to.

 

It is not my area, which is why I ask, but always interesting to see where technology is taking us.

 

E2A There is an interview vid on the Behringer website which gives a pricepoint at $799 which makes it even more interesting.

[sam.spoons]

What similar product Simon? This looks an ideal teaching tool in your sector and I can think of a few music producers it would be a great help to.

 

It is not my area, which is why I ask, but always interesting to see where technology is taking us.

 

E2A There is an interview vid on the Behringer website which gives a pricepoint at $799 which makes it even more interesting.

 

I have the Mackie DL1608, which is a similar product in that it has 16 mic inputs, stereo mains and 6 auxs (not sure how the X18 configures it's auxs to claim 12 busses as it has only 6 sockets on the back, and inserts but no physical sockets?). The DL has been out for around 20 months now and Berry seem to have looked at all the user requests on the Mackie forums and built the mixer most DL users would like the Mackie to be.

 

The X18 is a development of the stillborn iX16 which Behringer announced over a year ago.

 

 

The main differences (as far as I can tell from a quick look at the stuff on the Berry website) :-

Multitrack recording via USB (DL only does stereo and only to a docked iPad)

Built in WiFi (DL needs external router)

16 combo inputs (DL has 4)

4 x fx slots (DL has 2) and better fx, (DL reverbs are ok but only ok and you have one reverb and one delay slot only)

Recallable gains (DL has manual gain controls)

Stereo phono I/O

RTA

Integration with P16

MIDI

iPad, iPhone and PC software (and a third party Android app) the DL is iPad/iPhone only

 

That's about it until I get time to read the manual

 

Oh, and it's not in the shops yet (where have I heard that before.....) but when it gets there it'll probably be a bit cheaper than the Mackie too (so come on Mackie, pull your socks up and get as many extra features into the Master Fader software as possible before the X18 hits the shops).

 

The DL1608 is a great little mixer BTW, it has limitations but sounds great and what it does do it does very well indeed.

[the kid]

The Mackie DL series is ipad based.

[sam.spoons]

There's also the QSC Touchmix series which has a built in touch screen and will be dearer than the DL and X18, and the uMix range from SMPro Audio which has no screen and a browser based control app and will probably be cheaper than the X18. And I'd guess the Line6 SoundScape M20d qualifies too, dearer still at £1600 and with yet another slightly different approach to touch screen mixing.

[S&L]

apparently the x18 is now available but I haven't seen anything other than that tag line and it hasn't appeared in any online shop listings yet. I'm looking for a cheap back up for small and medium shows, something that fits in a small space and that I can squeeze by with in an emergency - and use for small bar gigs.

I'm keen to see the price - and there is a race on at the bottom end of the digital market.

I was floored to see these the other day...no idea of the quality but the app looks usable and have you seen the price???!!!

http://www.thomann.de/gb/sm_pro_audio_umix_12.htm

[peza2010]

.

I was floored to see these the other day...no idea of the quality but the app looks usable and have you seen the price???!!!

http://www.thomann.de/gb/sm_pro_audio_umix_12.htm

 

These look great, but the range really annoys me. for my needs 12 in is plenty, but I need more than two aux, and the next step up gives you 8 auxs, but the price rockets, and for my personal practice room, id like to be closer to the £300 box than the £800 box. Something in between would be great

 

<thread hijack> If anyone knows of anything that fits that bill, please do let me know </thread hijack>

[peza2010]

Maybe im talking rubbish actually.

 

Ive found the 16in model at around 500 quid.

[sam.spoons]

Maybe im talking rubbish actually.

 

Ive found the 16in model at around 500 quid.

 

Been there, done that and bought the tee shirt http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

[OneEng]

Sam nailed it pretty good.

 

What I would say ...... is that while I am a big fan of the new Behringer mixers (I own an X32 Rack), I would caution anyone on getting too excited about the X18 at this time. Behringer has developed a well seasoned habit of being late on product deliveries. If they are saying "September 2014" today, I would say you would be lucky to see one in your hands by January 2015 based on the past product launches.

 

On the positive side, the X32 family mixers (which the X18 is part of) have a good reputation for reliability and stability. The features are outstanding, and the sound quality is pristine.

 

To add to Sam's list, the X18 will have a built in wireless router if you want to use it. All you would need is the X18 and a tablet.

 

The 12 buses can be explained quite easily.

 

The X32 architecture is made up of inputs, outputs, and mixes. Mix buses are availible for any channel to "send" to. Think of a mix bus as the wire going out of your traditional aux out jack. The aux pot on each channel would then be a "send" to that aux out .... or in Behringer's world "Bus".

 

Now, where things get really interesting with Behringer's take on mixing is that you can put processing on a "bus" before you send the bus to a physical output (like an aux output jack).

 

If you were going to use all 4 efx engines, the inputs for these 4 engines would have to be 4 buses. Behringer also considers the L/R output's mix busses. So in theory, using 4 efx engines and the L/R out you would already have used up 6 of your 12 mixes ...... leaving 6 buses for the 6 aux outputs.

 

Also, the 4 efx engines aren't likely exactly what you think either. On the X32 line, we are provided with 8 efx engines; however, only 4 of them are parallel engines while 4 of them are insert engines (ie like geq's). You can't use insert efx engines for reverb or chorus, etc. What you would likely do with the insert efx is to use one of them as an insert on the main L/R bus as a stereo 31 band eq.

 

Each of your buses can be processed. Since buses are used for aux sends, you can use the parametric eq on the bus (the X32 line has a 6 band full PEQ on each bus and a compressor). Additionally, each bus can have an insert put on it.

 

It is really kind of confusing if you aren't used to all the flexibility. If you download the X32 Edit program you can get a better feel for what the product can do. It is pretty impressive.

[Simon Lewis]

The desk - whenever it hits the shops - looks like a winner and will be nail in the coffin for the lower cost analogue desks....

 

However, I do wish that the X18 had been fitted with a single AES50 port? It would make for more seamless integration with the X32 series accessories?

[OneEng]

The desk - whenever it hits the shops - looks like a winner and will be nail in the coffin for the lower cost analogue desks....

 

However, I do wish that the X18 had been fitted with a single AES50 port? It would make for more seamless integration with the X32 series accessories?

 

True. It also lacks the expansion slot (although it has the XUSb card, and its ability to record multi-track, built in).

 

It does have the ability to integrate with the P16m personal monitoring system. At this price point, the X18 will be unique in the following:

 

1. MIDI remote control for foot switches (can control mute groups and faders using a generic MIDI controller as well as changing scenes)
2. Multi-track recording ability built in
3. Remotely recallable and controllable gains (also stored in scenes)
4. Integrated monitoring system
5. Android, iPad, PC and Linux support for software control
6. Real time analyzer (RTA)

I don't see any explicit mention of DCA channels, but I can't see any reason that the would not have these..... which would also be a unique offering at this price segment.

The assumption is that the processing will be identical to the full X32 (just fewer channels and features and less physical I/O). If that is the case it will also have outstanding sound quality and very nice efx.

 

The only real competitor to the X18 that I can see is ..... the X32 Rack. You can currently get an X32 Rack for ~$1100.00 USD. For $300.00 you get:

 

1. 8 XLR outputs vs 2.
2. 6 Aux inputs vs 2
3. A total of 22 inputs vs 18
4. 8 efx engines vs 4
5. Expansion slot capability
6. AES50 to expand to 38 inputs total and the use of a stage box
7. Rack mount capability
8. A physical interface as a backup
9. 25 mix buses vs 12
10. 6 matrix mixes

Sounds like a good use of $300.00 to me ;)

[S&L]

The desk - whenever it hits the shops - looks like a winner and will be nail in the coffin for the lower cost analogue desks....

 

However, I do wish that the X18 had been fitted with a single AES50 port? It would make for more seamless integration with the X32 series accessories?

 

True. It also lacks the expansion slot (although it has the XUSb card, and its ability to record multi-track, built in).

 

It does have the ability to integrate with the P16m personal monitoring system. At this price point, the X18 will be unique in the following:

 

1. MIDI remote control for foot switches (can control mute groups and faders using a generic MIDI controller as well as changing scenes)
2. Multi-track recording ability built in
3. Remotely recallable and controllable gains (also stored in scenes)
4. Integrated monitoring system
5. Android, iPad, PC and Linux support for software control
6. Real time analyzer (RTA)

I don't see any explicit mention of DCA channels, but I can't see any reason that the would not have these..... which would also be a unique offering at this price segment.

The assumption is that the processing will be identical to the full X32 (just fewer channels and features and less physical I/O). If that is the case it will also have outstanding sound quality and very nice efx.

 

The only real competitor to the X18 that I can see is ..... the X32 Rack. You can currently get an X32 Rack for ~$1100.00 USD. For $300.00 you get:

 

1. 8 XLR outputs vs 2.
2. 6 Aux inputs vs 2
3. A total of 22 inputs vs 18
4. 8 efx engines vs 4
5. Expansion slot capability
6. AES50 to expand to 38 inputs total and the use of a stage box
7. Rack mount capability
8. A physical interface as a backup
9. 25 mix buses vs 12
10. 6 matrix mixes

Sounds like a good use of $300.00 to me ;)

 

weirdly prices are shifting differently in different regions for different machines. this may well come down to a decision that is region specific.

in the UK the best price I can find is from thomann - £1144 ($1920). In other words, what what the US pays in dollar we pay in pounds, roughly. that means the probable price of the x18 will be around £800. at that price it would work out exactly the same price as the Mackie 1608. it's a bit of a jump up to the x32 rack (£350) but more to the point it's going to have broad appeal for a different use. Those Mackie's are already turning up with bar bands mixing on stage. I suspect that the x18 will see similar service. i.e. a tool predominantly for local musicians whether recording or working live. obviously there are plenty of other applications for all of us.

so from a UK perceptive 2 weeks wages for am x18 or 3 weeks wages for an x32 rack - they are not so close together. On the other hand the producer can be had now for £1234 - only £90 more than the rack - but I would certainly rather have a producer to mix a small show on than an ipad and a rack. in fact if you add the cost of an ipad of circa £300 (I have never subscribed to the cult of apple) the x32 producer is a roughly matched price for the x32 rack, x18 or mackie 1608.

 

I guess there are two points here - first, that prices in one region seem to be varying and the economics of a particular region make quite large differences for the same product. Second, that x18 will have different rivals inside and outside of the other behri models - because the £1,000 and below digital market appears be getting quite competitive.

[OneEng]

OUCH!

 

My condolences on your regional pricing!

 

On the use cases....

 

I have been seeing more and more FOH engineers walking around with an iPad lately. This is for venues of 150 to 450. In many venues there is little room outside the stage for a FOH system. For these setups, I see either the X32 Rack, or the more simple QSC TouchMix/X18/DL1608 cutting into the traditional 16 channel physical mixer market.

 

FYI, the X32 range is supported by a 3rd party Android app called "Mixing Station" that is quite good. This is in addition to the official Behringer PC app and iPad app.

 

I wonder why your prices are so out of wack compared to ours here in the US?

[S&L]

OUCH!

 

My condolences on your regional pricing!

 

On the use cases....

 

I have been seeing more and more FOH engineers walking around with an iPad lately. This is for venues of 150 to 450. In many venues there is little room outside the stage for a FOH system. For these setups, I see either the X32 Rack, or the more simple QSC TouchMix/X18/DL1608 cutting into the traditional 16 channel physical mixer market.

 

FYI, the X32 range is supported by a 3rd party Android app called "Mixing Station" that is quite good. This is in addition to the official Behringer PC app and iPad app.

 

I wonder why your prices are so out of wack compared to ours here in the US?

 

out of whack? don't forget our prices are broadly similar to the rest of the EU and that will have something to do with import duties, retail tax - they all go to pay for frivolous things like free at point of use healthcare, social benefits, minimum wage support etc. but let's not get too political, it's not what we are here for - suffice to say when you buy anything anywhere in the world you are not just paying for the goods themselves.