LED tungsten mix

[StuartS]

Which desks offer an easy way to mix tungsten and inexpensive LED fixtures in the same rig to give them reasonably matching fade characteristics?

[david.elsbury]

Any desk with configurable dimmer curves I'd suggest?

[timsabre]

If you are thinking about dimmer levels then most fixtures match reasonably well on their own. If you are thinking about fade times (simulating the thermal inertia of the filament) then any desk with fade times... Which is just about everything once you get over the sub £500 chinese controllers.

[paulears]

I've always thought it amazing how slow tungsten lamps face to black - until you see an LED snap out, you don't realise how a snap blackout is nothing like it at all - so on most desks it's not really a dimmer curve adjustment at all, just replacing snaps with fades.

[groggy]

Cheap LED fixtures will not fade well regardless of any dimmer profile you apply to them. I would suggest trying to fade them out before your tungsten lights finish fading out. Your fades may look a little strange but it may be a little less noticible if the LED's arent the last light source left on.

[StuartS]

Thanks for the replies so far. Maybe I should have been more specific and asked whether there are any desks out there that offer thermal inertia simulation as a patching option. Setting up a desk with part cues or start-triggered special cues for every transition is very time consuming, but there are many venues where a LED/tungsten mix is going to happen and perhaps desk designers should consider this option in their software if they haven't already.

[paulears]

phew - I wasn't alone then, thinking this was exactly what you meant! It would be rather handy, because although one fixture leading or lagging in a fade is annoying, having black outs very much two separate cues from a visual perspective is far more annoying to me, looks like a proper multi cue every time - especially if you have 2K Fresnels, which cannot snap on, or off.

[timsabre]

I do not know of any current console which can do that automatically. Interesting idea though.

[paulears]

Perhaps something for the Chamsys good idea suggestion list?

 

Dimmer curves we have often talked about , but the annoyance from a poor dimming curve is quite minor compared to blackouts. We've done a fair few shows where blackout/restore/blackout/restore happens and it always looks naff - so I usually end up modifying the state to be all tungsten or all LED to make it look better - but often this actually weakens the look of the state itself.

[alistermorton]

IIRC the RC4 wireless LED dimmer can be programmed to smooth dim, simulating the inertia of a tungsten lamp.

[mac.calder]

I don't know of any desks, but I am pretty sure a number of high-er end LED fixtures have a tungsten simulation mode which gives you what you are after - the brands escape me at the moment, but I believe ETC is one of them.

[timsabre]

I don't know of any desks, but I am pretty sure a number of high-er end LED fixtures have a tungsten simulation mode which gives you what you are after - the brands escape me at the moment, but I believe ETC is one of them.

 

Yes - but he said "inexpensive LED fixtures"... which is definitely not ETC

[gareth]

Not exclusive to high-end fixtures ... at work we have a bunch of Chauvet LED units and they have four different 'dimmer curve' options in addition to a linear fade which are supposed to simulate the decay of a tungsten filament. I say 'supposed to', as they don't do it especially well ... but it's a step in the right direction. But the finer details of getting a mixed LED and tungsten rig to fade nicely without any jagged, jumpy fades in and out from the LEDs are down to good programming - e.g. applying curves and fade times in a way which matches everything up in a way which looks right on the stage.

[MarkPAman]

You'll also find it in some, at least, of the newer offerings from American DJ, and LEDJ.

[Jevans]

I'm not sure that's quite the same thing as thermal intertia though - I recall that when I've used ETC S4 LEDs, if you have them on and then snap them off from the desk either manually or in a cue, they snap "LED style" ie. absolutely instantly. The tungsten fade curve I think is just that - it is intended to simulate the classic S-shaped curve ie. the non linear change in light level of a tungsten lamp on a dimmer as you increase the fade linearly. I don't remember any inertia simulation, I definitely remember setting up seperate fade times for them in part cues.