[tom_the_LD]

Hi all,

I'm doing a show which is going to use backing tracks - nothing new or complicated there. Stick the wavs into SCS, CSC, Multiplay or whatever and click play.

However, I started thinking the other day. Is there any way to playback a multitrack version of the file so that you could "mix" it live and potentially have a more realistic mix?

So basically a piece of software like Cubase, Nuendo, Logic or Audition which would allow you to route individual tracks, to individual outputs on a soundcard which would then be put into a desk. Or do you do a "21 channel mix" in something like Cubase and then import that into something like SCS and route individual tracks?

I hope that makes some kind of sense!


Cheers,



Tom

[jmdh]

This is something that QLab could do, although I think you'd have to be careful about how many tracks any given computer would be capable of mixing live. It can handle up to 16 channels in a single file (you could potentially combine multiple files, I guess) and up to 48 output channels:

http://figure53.com/...on/audiocue.php

[smalljoshua]

I tend to use reaper connected via MIDI to multiplay which triggers play, stop and advance commands.

[mac.calder]

It's six of one, half a dozen of the other. If you are happy working with your DAW using pause points on the time line etc, all is good. If you want the ability to make actual cues etc look at your QLabs and SCS's and do it there.

We used to do something very similar for the singers on ships - during rehearsals we would record all the singers on their own track and then during the shows would play them back simultaneously. If there was an issue with a mic or the singer lost their voice a quick change of input patch on the desk and suddenly their voice is back in the mix - by using direct outs of the channels for the records it meant that with an input patch change all the automation still worked perfectly. If anything changed during the run the vocal captain would heads us up and we would re-record the "sick tracks". We also had orchestral 'fill' which was 10 tracks giving us a total of 16 channels dedicated to pre-recorded audio. All run from a PC with an audio interface.

This post has been edited by mac.calder: 18 May 2012 - 02:00 PM

[CharlieH]

mac.calder, on 18 May 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

All run from a PC with an audio interface.

On this note...does anybody know of a decent USB interface with 4+ outputs? I am looking at buying a decent one - have a Lexicon Ionix for recording but could do with a more output heavy interface for playback

[nb705]

Both motu and RME have some great quality multichannel sound cards, but they are expensive. If you only need 8 analog outputs then the roland Octopre is a good mid priced solution

[J Pearce]

Or you could use a hardware multi track player (such as the alesis hd24), firing time code into the player from your lighting desk or show control software. Pause the time code between songs.

[Biro]

Not sure If I have mis-read but Mainstage, the "live" version of Logic could be used.

[ian_gibbs]

All suggestions would work.

QLab allowing you to playback that many discrete tracks is one of the higher end versions so will cost a fair bit, or you could rent for the duration of your show.

Lots of large acts these days use a DAW as playback. One well known boy band uses logic when not playing with a band and NeYo (I think) used a Pro Tools rig on his last tour. The biggest factor with using a DAW is you need to be familiar with how the markers etc work in the particular one you are using and you loose some of the cue stack functionality of things like QLab.

Quote

On this note...does anybody know of a decent USB interface with 4+ outputs? I am looking at buying a decent one - have a Lexicon Ionix for recording but could do with a more output heavy interface for playback

I use a RME Fireface UC, which is great, sounds good, Loads of I/O and fairly small. They're not very cheap though.

Ian

[mackerr]

CharlieH, on 18 May 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

On this note...does anybody know of a decent USB interface with 4+ outputs? I am looking at buying a decent one - have a Lexicon Ionix for recording but could do with a more output heavy interface for playback

I'm pretty happy with my Roland Octa-Capture. Eight mic/line in with combo jacks, 8 TRS balanced line out, stereo SPDIF in/out for 10x10.

[dbuckley]

Danger Will Robinson warning on multi cahannel audoio devices; Not all devices present all their outputs as Windows "ordinary" sound outputs, but as ASIO outputs. Make sure your multichannel audio software can work with ASIO, certainly anything music production related should.

[indyld]

ian_gibbs, on 18 May 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Lots of large acts these days use a DAW as playback. One well known boy band uses logic when not playing with a band and NeYo (I think) used a Pro Tools rig on his last tour. The biggest factor with using a DAW is you need to be familiar with how the markers etc work in the particular one you are using and you loose some of the cue stack functionality of things like QLab.

Not being a noise boy primarily, I'm interested in the idea of the benefits of using a DAW (Reaper being good, on the cost front) for playback of multi-tracked audio. I can see how it fits with musical backing tracks, integrates well with additional MIDI instruments etc. and general band geekery.

How do people find this approach compares when used in a more theatre-y soundscaping environment? Generally my experience is to build up layers of individual audio tracks or to use a single multi-tracked file, which can then have relative levels tweaked via the playback software: Qlab or similar.

Is the main benefit the FX flexibility and perhaps shifting of things on a timeline easily? Or am I also missing other big benefits for soundscaping and cueing?

Not being a DAW nerd, I don't really get how "cues" would be created although from reading above, I assume we are looking at Play/Pause on one big timeline. As Qlab handles MIDI triggering fine, the DAW could be used for some elements of playback while others could be straight audio cues.

Any information to satisfy my curiosity appreciated.

[ian_gibbs]

indyld said:

1337417890[/url]' post='440599']
Is the main benefit the FX flexibility and perhaps shifting of things on a timeline easily? Or am I also missing other big benefits for soundscaping and cueing?

The FX is a big part of it, the ability to input live vocals and "process" them how you want can be of big benefit. The ease of editing also sways some people to this way of working, there is no need to pull the audio files out to another editor and then re import the new files into QLab or whatever before the show.

indyld said:

1337417890[/url]' post='440599']
Not being a DAW nerd, I don't really get how "cues" would be created although from reading above, I assume we are looking at Play/Pause on one big timeline. As Qlab handles MIDI triggering fine, the DAW could be used for some elements of playback while others could be straight audio cues.

Any information to satisfy my curiosity appreciated.

Cue-ing tends to be done using markers on the timeline. So you would give each marker a number which is then called up (in ProTools certainly) using the numerical keypad and a quick tap of the enter key which lets you jump to any of your markers. You can set ProTools to stop at each marker, although this can be tricky depending on the track contents at the time so its not nessecarily the best option if you are relying on something that can auto-stop. Obviously this makes on the fly set changes and re-arrangements relatively easy but requires a good knowledge of the DAW and what tracks are where.

[Ben Lawrance]

A lot of touring bands I work with use Logic for the click track.

One of them uses the click track to play back a choir and orchestra to allow them to play the album on tour, but without touring an additional 80 odd people for 3 songs.

[dbuckley]

As an off the wall suggestion, have a butchers at MIDI maestro.

Although it started out as a specialist MIDI sequencing product, it claims to support audio tracks as well, though I have never tried that feature. I have the LE version, and for MIDI it does what it says on the tin.

Why is it specialist and how does it differ from "normal" packages like Sonar etc? Normal packages work and operate at the level of a song, the song starts the song ends. MIDI Maestro designed to work in a musical theatre environment, so it has a bunch of tricks up its sleeve for pausing, vamping and looping, and the like, under operator control, during the performance. It's not a RMS virtual orchestra, but there are similarities in the things they do.

It's also low cost.